Planning sessions with stakeholders, consultants, & company have been going on for sooo long. They usually involve someone sticking sheets of paper on the wall with scribbles of magic marker and many lists of ideas/priorities/etc.

I've been involved in many of them, some business, some volunteer, some community planning. Here's the thing. They're fun at first, everyone leaves pumped thinking there is hope. That energy quickly fades and in the end, nothing happens except that the consultant gets paid.

I hope it works for downtown and I'd love to hear/read about just one time when these visioning sessions actually accomplished anything.

i really have to laugh at the "frederick is congested". comment. really? there Is No Traffic Anywhere in this City. Seriously. the city got rid of a lot of the one way streets, and traffic lights at several intersections have been eliminated. if you will do a study on the point of most downtowns you would see that it is actually a strategy to have stop lights in order to get people to drive slowly enough to see all the venues available. there is no parking problem downtown. go down to city hall and ask mr. bruce woody to see the parking matrix.

it is a darn shame that the farmer's market has stopped. the idea for a local product market is a good one, and one that i have suggested often.

more shops, and restaurants are vital.

I've never had a problem finding a parking spot because I don't expect to park at the front door. Walk the extra block---it's good for you.

I would support the tearing down of the garage at 9th and Felix. Wow how nice that would look. An open parking lot should be kept. As for the stop lights, amen. I go two blocks maybe, and stop for no one coming, that is irritating.

Heritage, I don't know which downtown you're referring to when you say there's no parking problem. As a former downtown residence and worker, there are plenty of parking problems and most of the problems exist around the very venues where people want to go..attorney's offices, restaurants, Corby Building, Bliss Salon,Courthouse and state office building. If you park a fraction over the line or even move to another space within the same block, you are ticketed by the overzealous meter maid.
It's a wonderful idea to take the unused top deck of the parking garages and replace the concrete with a living green scape of indigenous prairie grass..eco friendly and easy care.

have you ever lived in an area with a successful downtown? i WISH we had a parking problem. we have a walking problem. i agree with bks.

go look at the parking matrix. also, the meter maids have toned it down considerably. the city is considering making exceptions for first offenses. talk to mr. woody. the city is also trying to make a process whereby tickets can be first examined at city hall without having to go to court. they are working hard to make downtown more user friendly.

i just came back from a visit in historic white plains NY. you can circle the block for an hour and not find a space. then the meter is $.75 for 15 minutes. that is a parking "problem", but then that is a Huge Tax Base which has not a single empty storefront.

they should put a skateboard park on top of that garage.

yes Heritage, some of us have lived in successful downtowns..like Portland, Oregon and areas of Washington, D.C...and I disagree with the idea of having the city examine tickets at city hall, what sort of political boondoogle will that create and who will decide which ticket passes muster and which ticket fails?
Walking a block or more is good exercise for most everyone, problem is that not everyone who does business in downtown sees things the same way or has the physical ability to walk an extra block to the courthouse.
Why not get creative with the upper deck of the parking garages? Why not a community garden?

guess you just can't please everyone. too bad you didn't contact devin ray or myself when this discussion was once again brought up a few months ago. i would have been happy to pay for your lunch at the parking "summit" and you could have had some input.

there are an abundance of handicap parking spaces downtown.

if you would rather pay a ticket or go to court to protest, that is fine. the city was trying to provide another option.....

i like the idea of a roof top garden, however, that would require maintenance, and downtown has enough trouble just keeping the weeds out of the felix street square....... a recreational area for kids would serve a twofold purpose. i agree that ANY use to the currently useless boondoggle would be an improvement.

Heritage... I like the skateboard park on the parking garage idea. Do we even have a skateboard park in st. joe?

hibiscus. the only one on the north end is one that is smaller than my living room on the mapleleaf parkway at the small playground. it isn't even a joke, its an insult. a lot of people here seem to think that skaters are criminal alternative types........

i know there is another one, but i heard it is just as bogus.

Well I think its important for kids to have things like that to do, be good at, and keep them busy. If they dont have activities like that, then they will get bored. Growing up all we had in my small town was a skating rink, movie theater and bowling alley. We went skating every friday and saturday or to the movies. Now the skating rink is closed and the movie theater was torn down. I wonder what the kids do now if they dont like bowling??

Heritage..I've been involved in downtown development since the late 90s and have given my input to the city, Main Street and the St Joseph Downtown Association /Partnership. The parking "summit" isn't the first time the problem has been addressed. Lack of accessible parking is an issue in many communities.Community leaders, the city and business owners in an area of KC stretching from downtown south to Union Station have been grappling with the same problems as our city. The difference is all in the approach to finding solutions. St Joseph needs to become alot more proactive in finding creative ways to meet community needs, and all roads should start at city hall.
In essence you and I are in agreement; in specifics you and I differ..
My suggestion of a rooftop community garden is in part based on the fact that the downtown farmer's market is closing. There are many people in the community that would like the opportunity to have a garden and gardening groups could volunteer to take over the upkeep. The city could set some guidelines and the see what happens from there..
Oh well, that's the view from my soapbox..the coments section on this site encourages letting one get carried away with rhetoric.

i completely agree with you, hibiscus. this city has precious few activities for our older teens. the under 13 kids have more choices, but the older kids cruise the belt and end up in trouble.

they could have a paintball/water pistol option in any of the parks........

whatever happened to go-karts?

skateboarding is good exercise, requires coordination and concentration. the "snow" version is an olympic sport for cripes sake.

absolutely on the same page as far as being more creative, lamplighter.

the city should be opening every empty lot they are holding to community garden groups.

funny you mention the farmer's market. i just called downtown to find out how i could revive it, and to bring in an addition of free entertainment, and people who make lovely home made items. the permit process may be a little bit of heavy lifting..... no surprise there!!!! i have an idea for offering some activities on a regular basis in city center park, too. croquet, checker tourney, maybe badminton, frisbee, maybe bocce ball ( lawn bowling) ..... anything to bring the folks together.

I love all of the ideas and I too, wish downtown was a strong focus of the city. Too bad we can't build it back up like the Weston folks did. Anyway, I live in town and I never hear about things going on downtown. I must admit, I don't read the paper everyday, I can't get channel 2 (go figure) and I only listen to the radio a little each day. Where do I go to learn about all the things that go on downtown?

All the comments about walk a block, etc. BUT one person's opinion can only go so far! the people must decide what they want, then the city planners must facilitate the people's wants, needs, and desires! I spent 30 years in economic development/business development to learn that!
Contrast Joplin/Springfield with what St. Jo has done. Drive down, stay a weekend, OBSERVE!

The ideas presented here have been great I would love to think we could get the city to implement some if not all. As far as the skate boarders park there have been several parks, but always away from the where the kids actually live. One was up on K-Highway, now the Gentlemans club. Part of the problem in this town is you get the ball rolling and then it goes nowhere. I headed up several ideas back about ten years ago for the North side complex and the only one that half-way made it was the little skate board park (it was suppose to be bigger and it took forever.) The Parks Department was nice to work with, but it always seemed red tape got in the way. I wonder if other cities have that much trouble getting things done and if not why do we? Seems like the ball is always turning, but people get frustrated and finally give up. Good luck to all I hope the powers that be will help.

Looks like lots of great ideas and I love downtown. The reason downtown is dead is City Hall. They have consistantly sent all the incentives for retail out east. This community is not able to support much additional retail and without some significant retail downtown; nothing will work. Look at the vacant retail opportunities that the taxpayers subsidies have already provided--the North Shops is far from full, East hills looks nice but has no new tenants and don't forget the Tuscany Joke. This town needs a good dose of reality!

classyt, there are flaming hoops at times!!! good on you for getting the existing skate park on the mapleleaf. you are so right about the need for the attractions to be in areas which the parents don't have to transport the children to. i believe the logical place of the parking garage would be even more feasible because we now have the wonderful "forces of nature" center downtown. i am going to enlist shawn force ( he doesn't know it yet) to help me get this started, since i have NO clue about boarding.

the farmer's market is pretty easy to get done. the permit is really reasonable and the sole stricture is that vendors must be growing their own produce. if i add other stalls to include items such as someone who does artisan jewelry, or needlework.... they must have a business license and pay tax on each item.

i don't want it to turn into a glorified garage sale..... and that would actually help to keep the standards high(er) so that the quality will be something downtown can be proud of.

All skateboarders need is permission. The entire downtown is a skate park ;)

A friend of mine (with insightful hindsight) said that Saint Joe lost a huge opportunity when I-229 came through. There should be an inviting, wide, parkway that winds along the river, where people can turn off to the storefronts on one side and River Parks on the other. Now, most visitors say, "Hi, bye" as they fly-by at 55mph over the city.

It took at least a generation to grow to dislike downtown, and it will take at least a generation of positive opinion to turn back.

i see the kids trudging up to downtown all the time! the tragedy of that little child being hit by a car trying to find a place to practice his sport really illustrated for me the need for a venue. the smoother sidewalks downtown, the hills and the rails are just about calling to them.

a generation, or a lot of crazy transplants!!!!!!!

hey you guys...... just a heads up for anyone who is interested in the parking downtown issue. MARK YOUR CALENDARS for tuesday june 16 at 4:15 pm. there is a meeting in the 4th floor conference room at city hall to review the history of parking downtown, and to discuss future plans. i hope the NP ( HINT) will fully advertise this event and go down and do an interview with mr. woody on this a week BEFORE the meeting so people will be reminded of this.

you can have a voice. ...........

Sad that it just might take "crazy transplants" who see the beauty and possibilities.

i should clarify that i am a proud crazy transplant LOL!

many people have carried the flag for decades. it is hard to stay enthusiastic. i know that this city would not have all the wonderful assets she has without the folks who did such hard work in the areas of performing arts, the nature trails, the downtown enterprises........ we just need more heavy lifters to keep the ball rolling.

Heritage, I really liked your ideas for the civic center Park. At the North Side complex we have shuffle board and horse shoes, the horse shoes tournament seemed to be a great success for the north side weekend last week. It shows if we have this type of entertainment people will partake. Especially downtown where a lot of people live. I'm on board to help if we can get the city to get on board.

classyt, i just spoke to the parks dept, and there are no restrictions on private citizens simply setting up games in the city center, or any other park. so....... i am going to just start going down there on sundays and setting up my croquet and bocce ball games. maybe badminton.

the only restriction i anticipate is to make games designated for children only and adults, rotating each game in turn.

unless someone decides to be a jerk, or hits someone in the head with a mallet i can't see a down side to just getting people together.

i really wish this section still had the facility to private message so i could contact you. i have an idea. i am meeting with cathy ( who i believe you defended on the schools) again this weekend. if you give her a call, she can put you in touch with me. in fact, i hope you will join us in the group this weekend. i am known here as sarah hochschwender, but not comfortable with putting my phone number or email out there.

soon i will have a website up for the farmer's market to get information out to people who want to participate. i have a meeting with parks on tuesday. then i will give out that info, and hopefully have a nice piece in the N/P....

thanks for the encouragement.