Hope......I have hope.......

have the southside precent been counted or are they left to be counted.

Yahoo!!!!

congratulations to all who worked so hard........

I say congrates to the OCOFOD.Now I will hold the districts feet to the fire to say you are not coming back to us before the next five years to ask for anymore and I will expect them to actually look at the services they cut to our childrens schools like they said they would in a article this week and I would expect this to happen imediately if not sooner(They work tommorow don't they).They now have their 6.5 million dollars again and now they need to address the overcrowding issues in certain schools as well and get our class sizes back down to the sizes they were last year.

Gratz, St. Joseph!

What a great night for St. Joseph, the schools, the commuinity, and our children. The fact that less than 35% of voters turned out still shows we need to get more people involved with the schools.

We now have five years to get a good plan together. The levy has passed and we are all on the same playing field, time to roll up the sleeves and get to work. Thank you St. Joe.

P.S. Axium DEFEATED - you rose to the occasion St. Joe - you sent those S.O.B's home - great job!!

Wow. We should see some awesome improvements now... with 2 fewer schools and a comfortable amount of money in the bank.

Open transfers to return?

Admin pay raise?

More instructional coaches for sure.

OK....this is a direct message to the district leadership...Dr. Smith and the School Board:

This is your opportunity. You have a community who doesn't trust you...and who feels you've been less than honest and not at all transparent. I'm only a lowly parent...a "nobody". However, my suggestion to you is to be totally and completely open in EVERYTHING. If you can't gain the trust of the residents in St. Joe, five years from now, you can kiss this levy goodbye. If you ARE honest, and totally transparent in all you do, in five years, you may see the levy made permanent, as well as increased.
The people in this town have spoken loudly, between April's vote and this vote: This is OUR school district, and we don't like how you've been running it!! YOU work for US...not the other way round! Get back to the work of teaching our children, and do it honestly and with integrity.

To all my friends on the message boards....both pro and con...it's time to work together for the future of our children.

Pops I agree with you 150% on your post but the ball is now in their court and we will see very shortly how they react.We will also see if they have learned anything or if they go on with business as usual and not care what we have to say.Only time will tell but your right they have their chance they better no screw it up this time.Next board elections to replace 2 members with 2 pro- community members.I cannot wait to see who the canidates may be for these 2 seats.

Wow!! I got a "thumbs down" for my remarks?? I'm just guessing.....that would be "sour grapes"....right???!!!!

What a sad day for St. Joseph when you are excited about keeping our district among the lowest funded in the state.

That being said, I am ready to move forward and see if we can get it together folks! Our kids deserve better.

Attn: dr. Smith and OCD: you promised us community engagement in a long range planning process - Bring it!

For the record pops, I gave you a thumbs up!

oh, and sense/apple - we DON'T have five years. We have FOUR with the 63 cents - you bought us one more year. We will be operating in the red well before year five.

I would prefer the district admin and the board works wit hthe community for the long range planning this is what they were elcted for and what the admin is paid for.But they need to bring it on and act not sit and conduct business as uaual.I do not think the OCODOF group will engage all of the community and their facilitating team will be made up of their hand picked people from their circle not from all areas of town.

As you said many times mm - the levy will not hit the books until the next school year, however, they can go ahead with plans and budgets for the next school year. Also keep in mind, they never ever said schools would be reoponed.

This was a huge win and the final vote was not that close. For all the talk of people not trusting the district and angry, one lost with less than 200 the margin and now an overwhelming victory - I think the votes and the community are telling the district and Dr. Smith, great job!!!!!!!

AMAZING.....Can sleep with a clear head....

Pops: You complain about having bills and no money but you can afford a computer and internet?! Not too struggling...

You have more than many of St. Joseph's parents.

Wake up. Our parents and grandparent funded you children's education. You can fun ours with what little you supposedly have.

You are right sence/apple but they can and should get the services taken away like they said they would this week in a article and they can go ahead and do it use the reserve.

sorry keys stick! lol!

Sad isn't it. How many times did they put this thing on the ballot and waste their oh so precious dollars to nag the taxpayers to vote. I think we need to inforce a three strikes you are OUT rule in regards to issues on the ballot. Unfortunately as usual the taxpayers lost interest in the whining of the school district. While the rest of us have to pick and choose where to cut our funds to make our way instead of crying about it. I wish I was getting a raise next year. But alas, I don't work for the St Joseph School District.

schoolside you work for the district I would not be to loud there is plenty of work to get done and your comments will not get that process along any further.

j_White - this was the second time if you were keeping count. Maybe you will get a raise next year, why don't you ask for one?

schoolside,
Where, exactly, did I say anything about having bills or struggling with my money? Perhaps you need a lesson or two in reading comprehension???
I certainly HOPE you don't work for the district...at least not as a teacher....

Hey mm - tell me the truth - were you suprized by the outcome? To be honest I was a bit, I do belived the "CAFT" actually hurt the opposition with their mailers this time, I think it made people mad. what do you think?

pops always said he would vote if a sunset was put back and it was, but him like many are giving the district an opportunity, one they better not take lightly. Thank you Pops your a man of your word, and the district better remember that as well.

Still have alot of work to do. This locks it in for another five years, and then it comes back to the table. It does not address future state. There are still no new schools being built and the existing buildings have to be fixed. Like I stated before, we should have the confidence to show off to any potential new employer or visitor who may decide to live here any building in any part of town with confidence and without worry. Does that confidence exist? This was a core argument in Apr as to why permenant funding was needed. In 5 years it comes back, with more expenses to address. In the meantime other communities who have decided to invest heavily now instead of 5 years from now will have the competitive edge. Instead of putting some of this money into reserve which I am betting some of it will go to, invest in new boilers and heavily in other issues they face, as these buildings will be around for at least another 10 to 30 years easily. OCOFOD, you won out, congratulations, still have alot of challenges ahead to address. Good luck with that.

I really did not know what to think other then what I had heard from mad parents and out in the community.Turn out was not what I expected.Now wee have to live with it and move forward and hold people accountable and plan for the long range of our schools.But I do not think this should really begin till we have our new board members.

I'm amazed . . . . good for you, St. Joe! Sometimes, despite all the negativity, good things can happen.

as a person on here who posts once in awhile and an employee of the district,,,,I personally want to thank everyone who worked so hard to get the word out and everyone who voted YES...To some of you who have done nothing but bash the district, staff, admins etc.....your no votes are the miniority, st joe spoke and said YES and you LOST.....LOST...open mouth and please insert foot at this time,,,,you know exactly who you are...now that you no longer have anything to say worth listening to, please practice your spelling and grammar...MM, it was appalling

noneya. Talk like that does nothing to bring the community together. You think this is a win? You really think that keeping St. Joe among the lowest funded schools in the state is a WIN?? Seriously? If you ever want anything better than the lowest funded, poorly performing schools that you have now, you might want to try another tactic other than throwing insults.

You consider THIS a win? THAT is what is appalling! You believe that your post is an example of moving foward? Perhaps it is YOU who should get used to the taste of your foot.

Thank goodness some areas of St. Joseph value education for the children of our community.
My own children away at college have experienced other cities that see it as a necessity to keep up with their public school systems. Springfield Missouri did not hesitate
to approve 6 million dollars a few weeks ago to build another high school.There was no fussing, name calling or outside forces rejecting.
Educated communities don't see this as a want but as a need.

I would like to add my congratulations to the SJSD. I was surprised at the win as well as the large majority. I thought the district, by virtue of staff voting, and hopefully, parents voting, should be enough. My hope is that those two groups did support it. I also hope that the administration will be active on the community relations and staff relations front. If they are, they can move forward. Right now, as I see it, they have to be able to move beyond a bunch of sunset clauses. They should also remember, that even though they won, there was still a sizable number of people to whom they have not won support. Even though, to convert all of those who voted against this issue is impossible, they must try to convert as many as possible.

I only throw out the insults that many on here have slung towards the schools, teachers, staff and admins...Reading these posts daily you could see to some how it was a competition and they used the words, win, lose etc...hence now they are dancing a different dance and trying to find fault in board members etc...so if you voted yes..its a WIN by no other name...obviously the majority of this town agrees with me..no foot needed here, i am on the winning team...way to go st joe

Does this mean that the closed schools will open back up and the kids who had to transfer can go back to their old schools? Will the district workers who were cut get their jobs back? Or, is this money really going to help us up size to accommodate the immigrants who are making us run out room and money. They don't license their cars here, so we don't get the money for that, and they rent homes, they do not buy them, so they won't be paying taxes. I voted yes.. for the record, because I have a child in SJSD, but I was borderline yes or no.

noneya,
Like yougottabekiddingme told you comment like this from a district worker will not bring the community together.You may have a job for 4 more years but if they do not come together wit the community where do you think you just might be in 4 or 5 years?Worried again.One could hope your boss knows who you are and give you a piece of advice listen more and not slam the public because the public gave the district a chance tonight to redem itself and it could come back to haunt them if they do not and you may be looking for a job a few years from now.

Springfield just passed a bond for air conditioning in their schools tonight. St. Joseph has such a long way to go to catch up.

I also found this interesting bit of information: I guess when you put your money where your schools are they perform better.

"Springfield Public Schools had seven schools named 18 times to state Top 10 lists for Highest-Performing Schools by the Missouri Department of Elementary and Secondary Education.

Among all Missouri public school districts, Springfield had the third largest number of schools to make the Top 10 lists. The lists recognize schools for high performance determined by the percent of students scoring proficient and advanced on the spring 2008 Missouri Assessment Program tests."

So when is the next levy vote coming? OC/OF/OD had better not try to soak up much credit for the victory either. They had no hand in my vote. Grats to the SJSD now remember you are being watched. To the board don't get to comfy in your seats I smell change in the air.

noneya,
I still do not rust the board of education and I still do not trust some of the administration.They will have to earn that from us.
I am glad you are no longer concerned of losing your job.
I just lost my Managers job along with several hundred people which several of them worked in my dept and for me.I do know what it is like.I feel for my emloyees everyday that goes by that are still unemployed.I will be ok because we never lived above our means and saved for thing like this.But I had to tell several people that they were not going to have a job it is hard and your heart goes out to them.This was due to a plant closing in the area.So before you critcise the voter who voted no and did not support this levy you just should be thankful you still have a job because believe me there is a line of people waiting to take your job.And it does not do the district any justice in moving forward hearing replys like yours from a district employee.

The community saw fit to restore funding in this manner and now it is also our responsibility to ensure it accomplishes something more than it did in the past.
Too much is at stake for things not to change.

I agree somewhat with noneya, I imagine how hard it was to read all those posts these past months. Many negative comments and condemming the district and admidistration. Claims of certian defeat and asking for resignations.

So much was agaisnt the district, having to close schools, draw up district lines, attacked by Axium and facing grass roots opposition such as ACE. Now not just a small majority gave the district a vote of confidence and yet we still read the negativity from yougotta the leader of ACE.

We need to work together and move foward, but tonight so many I debated these past months, your just going to have to eat crow for one night, your the minority. Please excuse Noneya comments, she just can't help saying - told you so - I guess I cant either - posts all you want as much as you did before, be negative, this community rose above it. Im so proud of this town. Oh and Jeff Roe - defeated in Kansas City, defeated in Platte City, defeated in St. Joe - your 15 minutes are up buddie -

Re-read my posts..I did not criticize any voter who voted no, I only criticized people such as yourself who daily had nothing but negative to say about the board, admin, teachers etc....I got tired of all the lies and harmful words being slung and am sticking up for them and for others who believe in them...thanks to the constitution, I have a freedom of speech and dont have to be talked to by anyone for expressing my feelings...You are right, I may not know my job situation in a few years, but at least for awhile I can rest again at night...good day

What do you all think should be the #1, #2 priorities for this money?

I'd like to see:
#1 increased classroom teacher salaries, full and part time, including paras and subs

#2 fix all known maintenance problems with the remaining buildings

I would like to give a big thank you to the citizens of Saint Joseph who voted yes. Sense/Apple I would like to give you a special thank you. You stood in there and took all the crap for supporting the kids and their education. I enjoyed reading your comments. You never backed down and I hope more people learn from you and stand up and take advantage of what has been given to us tonight.

MM -I really did not know what to think other then what I had heard from mad parents?? You said many times this was going to be a blow out with the no votes. Guess St. Joe. doesn't agree with you. Then again you showed your true colors today when you admitted why you were voting no.

I read this morning that no matter what the vote ( this coming from a no voter ) we need to stand up tomorrow no matter what the outcome and support this community. I truly believe this is our chance to make a difference and do everything we can do to get education going in the right direction.

Sence I really wish I new you. I would really like to shake your hand. God bless you. I know there was others that stood up for the levy and I want to thank you too. God bless all of you.

IT------IS-------FINISHED !

Actually it is just beginning. We have alot to do to help our children and school district. I am ready full force to do whatever it takes to get St. Joe where it needs to be.

ajm,

I find you commment personally offensive regarding the "immigrants who are making us run out room and money. They don't license their cars here, so we don't get the money for that, and they rent homes, they do not buy them, so they won't be paying taxes."

First,I think you are on the wrong forum. Secondly, if you are referring to the children of immigrant doctors, scientists, engineers, professors and gas station owners, I would guess they are paying more taxes than you. Thirdly, the places that are rented are paying property taxes, correct? And if they are registered voters, than they can vote, correct?

I'm sorry St. Joseph has a problem hiring local doctors, and business owners, and pork plant workers. Guess we better start educating our children better in math, science, and business, teach them that when they don't have a job, any job is better than no job.

Thank you Sjones I appreciate your comments
We all did it tonight -

Now that this issue has been settled by the Saint Joseph voters I wonder what folly Kenny Reeder will be chasing now? Maybe the Mayoral position or a seat on the council, never gonna happen after this REEDER lead fiasco.

noneya,
But I am one of the ones you need to worry about we are the ones who are going to watchimg very closely to see that this levy is used what is suppost to be used for we are also the ones willing to work for the long ramge plan for our school so you see you should wrry about me I am a tax payer as well which you draw your pay from.

apple/sence,
The people did this for their children because they were scared the district would make further cuts which would hurt their children.It is not because Mrs Smith is doing s good job just the opposite.

As usaul very vague in your commits. Stop the negativity stand up for the kids in your community who will make the difference in our future.

Sence
I also did not see where yougottabekiddingme said anything bad.

Personally, after having witnessed this whole long, drawn out fiasco...I honestly believe Saint Joseph can best be served by the immediate resignation of the entire school board and replacing them with 'normal' Saint Joseph residents whose feet are planted solidly the ground rather than having society page wannabes who envision Beverly Hills 90210 here in Northwest Missouri.
When Saint Joseph employers start paying like Beverly Hills, THEN we can afford 'Beverly Hills' schools, not before.

Sjones
People are willing to stand up for our communitys children and negativity is something only the district can do away with from some of the public which they have already should have been doing in the last 6 months now they have their chnace and only time will tell.Just because they got their levy they are not trusted completely just as of yet.

great post donshere now someone need to tell the board this.

this board scored a victory. not a victory against roe, herzog, and the rest of the cronnies, but for our kids. do the members of the board need to remain accoutable, and provide transparency? absolutley, they have 2 employers, the voters, and our kids.

jeff roe is a parasite, herzog is a menace. he doesn't want a public school in the northeast part of town so his kids won't want to go to a public school. Herzog hates this town. if it wasnt for the old man, they'd have left a long time ago. these are the people paying axiom stratagies. if the county were to grow some kahonies and stand up to these people, maybe stand up to herzog, something might get done in this town.

well the citizens have spoken! great to see this town back something, yet i still beleive trust must be regained and developed further. I think the clown flyer did in the opposition because they resorted to a personal level attack on some very respected community leaders. Also i wish i had known they had a clown on the belt and frederick wavinga no sign i would have liked to thown a water balloon at him, could have been interesting. the opposition tried hard and lost also st. joe you need to look at not re-electing sam graves as his brother is a majority owner in axiom and main reason it failed the first time something you should question him about and not re-elect him. next step is finding out who opposed it like mr. catron and maybe boycotting his business places. think about it joe town do whats right for the community.

I respect your concern. I believe we have a long way to go. Passing the levy was the first step. something is better than nothing. Now we need to come together and make the SJSD listen to the citizens. All I want is what is best for the children. We can make a difference if we all work together.

Lets boycott a business and drive them out of town and lose more jobs sound like a dumb plan to me.I was not affiliated wit hany of these groups and feel the SJSB/SJSD should be able to do their own work with the community.But they will not they will ride the coat tales of the GOF and we will not have community involveemnt.Remember I think some of them said other areas of town did not know what was good for them so they had to be told what was good for them.Trust is hugh the district need to get it back and only they can do this abd they do have their chance.I will never trust the TF as they have made comments like the one above.donshere said it best they worry about being on the society page more.

Sjones you are correct we need to work together but the verdict is still out on that will they lets us all work together?

I would like to know more about this school board petitions in the schools.These do not belong there.I would like to see who is planning on running for the board and have some time to do some reasearch on each of them.Its not to early to start this in my opinion.

Ok, The people have spoken with their vote. I live in Andrew county. We approved a new middle school. It's a great access to the community. All I can say you folks needs to come look at it. It's great knowing our children have this new up to date building to attent classess in. It's state of the art. Also for all you mouth runner. Stop running your mouth. Sign up to get elected to the school broad. Then you can have a first hand knowledge of whats going on. If your standing on the out side looking in.. you have no idea of whats going on behind the scence. all you can do is guess. Stop complainting until you have walked in their shoes. Yes I voted for the new school. I am on social security.Yes it hurt my income. It took a big chuck out of it.. But its for the kids future (Not mine or you're but your kids and grandkids)They will be the leaders of tomorrow, not me or you.. We had our time to lead now lets prepare our new leaders. To all the teacher in both Andrew and Buchanan county's God bless each of you and keep up the good work.

Dear St. Joseph,

Thank you for passing this levy.

I love all the calls to action. I am excited for the next school board elections, because it seems like there are a lot of people ready to bring inspired work to make the schools better.

In the meantime....people looking for change should realize that you are the answer you have been looking for...schools are, without a doubt, reflections of the communities they serve. If you want better leadership in your schools, lead through your voice- but also through your actions. Are you at school functions? Are you "in the trenches" with some of your time reading to students, tutoring students, or just showing young people the values of manners, kindness, and understanding? Have you actually been in one of the schools this year?

Don't just talk the talk but walk the walk. I am positive at the end of that you will find schools you would be happy to fund and get the results you want.

Being rational and having a school system we can afford does NOT mean we don't care about the children. It means being able to pay for what we can afford, nothing more, nothing less.
It's unfortunate that most parents 'don't have a clue' as to how their child/children behave in the classroom...or they wouldn't be stating "it's for the children". Many, if not most, parents are far too busy keeping a roof over their heads, the utilities paid and food on the table to teach their children 'why' they go to school and 'how their education will apply in years to come. Having been a teacher, let me assure you that from what I've observed, most children have little to no manners or common sense, let alone the ability to be respectful...but 'most' parents believe their 'little darlings' deserve 'the best of everything' GIVEN TO THEM...NOT EARNED. Most kids honestly believe they're in school 'for a good time' and MOST 'dare' anyone to try to 'correct them', even for their own good. Saint Joseph schools are nothing short of a 'zoo'... Think 'not'? Just check your childs ability to read, write or do simple mathematics (without a computer or calculator)...you'll be AMAZED! and...sadly...rudely awakened. Better yet...wait until they've graduated from high school and then do your 'check' on their (lack of) abilities...

'Resounding'...hmmm...I'd hardly call 56/44 resounding... Not even 66/34 is resounding... Maybe 80/20 would be a little more like it...

So the levy passed Congrads for the schools and kids. I wonder how many of those votes came from KC. Didn't someone say it would pass no matter what? Makes you stop and think. Hmmm stuffed ballet boxes. But that doesn't happen here in America ( Florida)and a few other states come to mind. People from KC kinda makes you wondering if I'm on the right page here. Well no matter we get to do this all over again in 5 yrs with no long term plan in play and we will be at each other throats again. Sounds like fun boys and girls don't you all think. Well i will be watching the district very close. And in April i will vote on removing two of the players. These are my thoughts and ty for reading.

While this may have been a victory for the students of today, it is still a failure for the students of tomorrow. The idea that funding a school system in 5 year increments at a rate below what is needed will continue to lead to an under performing school district with inadequate facilities. Not exactly a winning combination for a levy in 5 years.

I completely disapprove of Mr. Roe's political views and processes but we (the community) and SJSD best heed his warning, "We’ll see you in five years." Regardless, of whether the SJSD improves or not, there will always be people serving an agenda like Mr. Roe. I believe he has made it very clear that he will fight against any funding for public education. Even if the SJSD performs perfectly, with the assistance of the community, Mr. Roe and his group will be back in 5 years to attempt to defeat the next levy which you can be assured will be for more than 63 cents.

what a buuch of sour grapes, claiming the election was fixed, more threats and asking for resingation, you posters are the minority - get over it - progress and positive energy moves on - Jeff Roe - you don't win an elction soon - no one will see you in five years -

Sence/apple it really is probably better to let people vent on here then them calling the district offices venting although I am sure that will go on as well.People are going to want to know when they can expect services back they took away and they can do that now they do not have to wait for the revenue to come in because they know they have it and have the reserve to use.Use it then get it done like you told the community you would.

Congrats on getting this much-needed levy passed! A number of other revenue measures in the area passed last night. Maybe the mood of the voters is improving and things are getting more positive overall. Hope so.

I for one hate to hear the "I told you so" phrase, but I believe in this case, I will say it. "I TOLD YOU SO!" If only the sunset clause had not been taken out, last April, this election would not have been necessary, as it would've easily passed in April. As the saying goes, "They that do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"... PLEASE, in five years, when the levy is up for a vote again, Do not, and I repeat, DO NOT drop the sunset clause, Ok?? Oh, and I think an apology is in order, for all the bad mouthing that went on after the previous election, when citizens were told they didn't care about their childrens education.. YES WE DO, we just want accountablilty for the taxes we pay.

I am HAPPY the levy passed this time, and yes, I did vote in favor of it.

Grumpy

mm - no stop, you know nothing is going to change this year.

I believe that since the levy got passed then the schools that got closed should be reopened but we know that will not happen. The money will be used for the SPORTS! It has been 7 years since I graduated from the SJSD and back then it was always about the SPORTS. We needed new textbooks but didn't get them because they repaved the track and put in new bleachers. Textbooks should be before the sports because what are students without the education?

noneya,
I voted "yes"...but not to save your job, or any jobs. I voted "yes" because it was the right thing to do....to help give the district an opportunity to rebuild trust with the community.
As for negativity toward teachers, staff, etc. that NEVER came from me...EVER. I HAVE been critical of the board and the executive administration, but the principals, teachers, and staff at all our schools are second to none. Ask anyone....that's what I've been saying all along.

schoolside, you still haven't let me know what on EARTH you were talking about! Can you just "man up" and admit you misspoke? There's others in these threads who have made mistakes, and owned up to them.

For all those who are spouting "sour grapes"...alleging voter fraud, and other such idiocy....get OVER it already!! Stop spreading such stupidity, and get together with your community, and help rebuild.

I'd also like to point out that St. Joe is NOT Springfield. I'd really appreciate not hearing how wonderful Springfield is and how St. Joe stinks in comparison. It's sorta like having two kids, and telling one of them they'd be a great kid if they could just be more like their brother!! How infuriating!! To compare the two towns is like comparing apples to umbrellas!!

So my question is what is going to happen to those of us who lost our jobs in August? Those of us who were let go because the child care centers were closed? I lost my health insurance, my dental insurance, and my means to take care of my son. The families whose children were in the child care centers were screwed over and many of them had no place for their children to go. Are we all going to be repaid, rehired, reopened? Are the families going to have somewhere for their children to come back too? Are the Elementary schools going to be reopened so that the schools aren't overcrowded? NO. My son's school used to have nice size classes and now they are crowded, that is no way for a child to learn. I'm glad the levy passed, don't get me wrong, but I am angry that i lost my job and insurance and means to take care of my son. So thanks for screwing us and helping us at the same time SJSD.

memo - I am so happy to know that after this election people like you with your thought process is in the minority. The schools are closed forever, they said that before the election, they are gone, never to be reopened.

As for sports, our athletic faciliies are a joke to other districts large and small. Yes Central resurfaced a track which was probably the only cinder track in the country of a school its size about ten years ago. The bleachers if you are talking about at Central was paid by the booster club. Most sthletic stuff is paid by booster clubs and fundraising. Your a small minded person, and thankfully you are the minority in this community, for a while I didn't know that, now I do

Apple/Sence do not start calling people small minded that was memo's opinion and if she is right text books should have came first.
I would also like for noneya to know I never slammed the teachers or the principles or the schools staff I was very critical of the board and the admin and will remain that way till I see them trying to work with the community.Which should be pretty soon in my opinion.
Also there is no reason some of these programs could be put back into place this year it just means they have to do a little work.

pops I agree with your posts and thankful for your stand against the sour grapes posting we have bee reading. You and I have debated and I beleive we still have some diagreements, however I bleive our discussions to have been respectful. To your point of Springfield, I agree, we are not Springfield and we need to focus on where we are going,

mm - sorry, Im not calling names, Im giving my opinion, that post was small minded thinking and anyone that would agree with that is as well. I want the community to come together but when I read that crap, come on - you even know better - her/his opinion that money goes into athletics over education is nonesense I might as well say Im make 1,000,000 a year, maybe if I just say it it will happen because its my opinion.

Moving on...........

Is there anyone in this forum who does not agree that we have ALOT of work to do to improve our schools?

This fingerpointing and in your face type remarks are not doing this community any good. (I myself am guilty of this behavior)

I propose that we throw down the swords, let bygones be bygones and work together to bring SJSD into this century.

This means that we work actively to find and elect new board members who have ONLY the best interest of our children in mind.

We need to demand that the OCD keep its promise of engaging the entire community in the LRP process.

We need to find a way to convince the voters of this town that our schools deserve PERMANENT funding.

We need to determine what amount it will take to pay our teachers competitively, reward continuing education.

We need to demand that any LRP include a plan to improve student achievement.

We need to demand that the LRP address every school, every building and every part of this community.

We - as voters, as parents, as members of this community - need to find a compromise that works for most, build a consensus and then put an issue on the ballot that will address the future, not just the next five years.

As I have said many times to create change you have to have a leader that has a vision and the ability to move the people to support the vision. None of the "no" voters could get that done and I doubt all but a couple of you (Sarah and John C will stay involved) will get involved to a level to make lasting change. Great job to sense.

You know what I am just going to give up on any of this process the TF and SJSD/SJSB are not going to engage all of the community anyway.They will hand pick their facilitationg team from their own members and shove more crap down our throats.Just in the time since the levy passed and the remarks from people who supported the levy,TF(OCOFOD) shows we will "NEVER" come together as a community for our schools.I will just continue to take care of my own children and fight for them and when the district craps on my children I will handle it on a case by case situation.Status quo is acceptable to these people so they can have it.Our schools will never change the good ol boys club is here to stay and we will never change that.I think these people are sorry individuals on the TF and they will do nothing but make decisions for all of us no matter if it is good for us or not.But mark my word they will for damn sure take care of their own.

Well, this is a great first step IMO.

And I would like to thank the people behind the "Vote No" phone calls and mailings, they were so annoying and I saw so much money beging wasted that you motivated me to take a look at this vote and actually get up and go vote YES for this to pass.

I do have kids in school here, and 90% of the teachers are great, I really like them.

Same for the admin at the school level -

Compensation might seem a little high for my blood in a few cases, and there are some things I disagree with.

But you know what, we have to do with what we have, let's make it the best we can and if you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem.

I'm very pleased with how this ended up, a bright light in this long dark tunnel we've been in......

Pops,

I just wanted to take a minute to commend you on being a man of your word. I remember you stating many times previously that if there were a sunset clause you would vote yes. I was pleased to see that you kept your promise from the beginning of the year. It is pleasant thing to know that, whether or not we see eye to eye on school funding, a man of integrity still exists in this world.

Cheers to you Pops on a job well done, and a promise kept!

Yep, sense, you and I have debated...sometimes hotly....in the past. I'm sure we'll disagree in the future. However, as I've said before, I think we're more alike than we know...and would have much more in common than we differ.

yougotta - I really liked your posts, this is exactly what we need, I hope the board elections don't provide ano ther opportunity to divide. Don't look for a huge turnout for the school board elections, the predictions of great turn out (mostly from the opposistion) was wrong - less the 35% turned out to vote.

We need to get more people involved. This means we need to find people with very thick skins, who don't take it personal if their ideas are not chosen, who can handle a post or two about them. Who listens to understand eveyone. We need the media to leave it alone for awhile and allow groups think tanks have time to express themselves and offer ideas without them being challenged before they can even be discussed.

mm - sorry you feel that way, losing is hard - I understand.

sense: "allow groups think tanks have time to express themselves and offer ideas without them being challenged before they can even be discussed."

YES!!! You and I are in agreement.

As for the school board candidates. My ideal candidate is someone who not afraid to think for themselves and stand up for what they believe in. This is why I like Snethen. I also think that Sarah will be a great asset to the SB once she feels a bit more secure in her position.

I would really like to see Beau Musser run for SB.

No apple it is not about losing it is about what people true colors are and we will go nowhere anytime soon and all concerned citizens from all areas of town will not be involved or be asked to be involved.The writting is on the wall.I will take care of my own thank you as they will.

Firat, congratulations to the voters who passed this issue.

But in the euphoria of this victory. here is a sobering thought: The levy with the sunset clause actually received fewer 'yes' votes -- 8,952 -- than the issue received in April -- 9,174 -- when there was no sunset clause.

Low voter turnouts historically favor school revenue issues. The drop from some 18,000 voters in April to 16,000 this time certainly was a significant factor.

The issue passed with a solid majority -- but it is evident much work needs to be done to boost the image of the school board and the administration.

Now is not a time for name-calling,or saying, "I told you so." It's time for a community to move forward together, to demand performance, openness, and be positive about the future.

Good post falcon.

Same people that put the empty suit in the white house got the levy passed (the uninformed, the followers, and the media). It will all be good until the TAX bill comes and then go find the money to pay with unemployment up and businesses closing it is a real good time to raise the homeowners taxes. Of course the test scores will rise as the taxes go up????

Thank you St. Joseph for passing the .63 education levy. Bask in the victory – but only for a moment – because we have so more work to do. I agree with yougotta – it is time to move on and the next step is long—range planning. My hope is that LRP will deliver a community consensus on how to support public education and a identify a permanent funding mechanism so our schools and community can thrive.

Yeahhhhh,

I for one am glad this is over for awhile. I am happy for the outcome, but I agree with "yougotta" we are well below the average funding to run a great school district. I believe the community needs to stay proactive in watching the district and one simple step is to pay close attention to the board members we elect. The board right now are yes people to the administration and they instead should be holding them accountable. After-all, they are suppose to be our eyes and ears not the buddies of the administration. The board needs to be held accountable about the decisions they make so they are watching out for the communities interest, which in return will bode well for the district and our precious children. Good luck to all!

ok I voted yes, and who did i see on the news ?? Not Mrs. Patterson but Dr. Smith.

Matt, seek treatment.

What business does Catron own?

Brennan - No I wasn't referring to doctors, lawyers and such. I was referring to those who come here to work, rent out homes for a family of 10 in a 2 bedroom house and send 90% of their money back to another country, instead of spending it here. Most of them get free lunches too. You have no idea what I do for a living, so don't question me. I know more than I would like to.

I will say it is sad that more didn't get out and exercise their freedom to vote.

well, i am glad it passed and at the same time in all of the posts one person had to mention the president? whats up with the company's in st. Joe who didn't support the yes vote. how did they get thrown in there? what proof do you have that the company's you posted had anything to do with voting no? some people will write anything to show their ignorance.lets move beyond name calling, bad mouthing , and just being plain stupid. if you cant say something nice, bite your tongue and turn red in the face, we don't want to read about your insecurities.to all who voted yes, congrats. to all who voted no, I'm sorry . we need to move on , and quit bringing the president of the united states into anything you dislike. grow up dudes.

One of the stranges calles I received from "CAFT" before the election tried to connect democrates to the levy - they actully said the school board were democrates. School board elections do not run on party affiliation. That was really going overboard and its sad national policts and agends have wormed their way into school board elections local races.

Lets hope those that throw money at Axium are seeing they no longer can produce wins with thier form of campaining. Jeff Roe commented see you in five years, not if no one hires you Jeff - your 15 minutes are up - this town has grown beyond you - bye-bye -

Glad the levy issue has been decided and behind us. Now, time to unite and develop a long range plan for St. Joe's Kids!

yougotta - you hit the nail on the head!

Show me how they are going to unite us.Sorry to be so skeptical but until you show me I will stick to taking care of my own children and whats good for them.
Mrs Waggner please tell me how you plan on getting people from all areas of town and all walks of life involved and if you all will involve all areas and all walks of life.
I am a very skeptic so put my mind to ease this would be a good step to show us who may be skeptical what your alls plans are.

Sense- I don't understand your anger towards Axiom..? It seems like there is something else to it?

Also, I believe he runs more campaigns than just a school levy. I don't think the levy passing is going to hurt his business much.

mm - one option being considered for community engagement is Unicom ARC. You can watch their presentation to the SJSD BOE in September at http://info.stjoekids.com and send any thoughts/comments/concerns to community@stjoekids.com.

I know emails being sent to that address are receiving responses.

Now, what about getting some of that Casino money back to the schools, where it was supposed to go all along......

John,
I was at that school board meeting and saw the presentation first hand.My question is about the facilitating team.Is it going to be made up of the TF hand picked people from their group or from all areas and all walks of life from the community?I feel if it is not there really is not long range planning that involves the entire community.Im not talking about having all people from the NE and doctors,lawyer,and such I am talking about having factory workers,mechanics,teachers,principles and some professional people.I persoanlly believe all people should have a repesentative and a say.If this is not how they plan on doing things I cannot support it.Remember it talkes people from all walks of life to be successful.Also look at it this way I live in the southeast corner of the town and I did not see one sign for the levy in our area and did not see one door knocker over the last few weekends.So I would like this process explained on how they are going to set up the facilitating team.

I am glad I don't live in St Joe. Be Smart = Go away to college and never come back.

Facilitating Team is already made up i think. I recall seeing something about that on KQ2 a while back TF a few teachers someone from heartland i think. I can't recall what all was said. I'm sure KQ2 can help you out there if you ask. Or call The Admin Office of The SJSD sure someone there can help. You are a taxpayer they should tell you. And please keep tabs of everything they do. Be aware of everything they say. These are my thoughts TY for reading

You don't understand my anger towards Axuim, really? You don't get that? I don't think I need to explain it and Im not sure why anyone would defend them.

As to their record, yes they do more campains than school issures, they foought against a trasportation tax in Kansas City - LOST, the fought agasint a parks tax in Platte City - LOST - now they fought against a school levy - LOST - in the land of high stakes political campains winning means everything, Axuim now means nothing -

mm - Unicom describes the process of identifying the Facilitating Team (FT). For it to be effective and have credibility what you describe will be necessary components of the FT.

Labyrinth - No, the FT has not been formed. Unicom has not even been hired yet. In fact, I don't believe the money has been raised to pay them.

I think I saw Jeff Roe last night scurrying out of St. Joseph with his tail between his legs. At least I think it was him. He had a great big L on is forehead.

John is correct, we are still raising money to fund the long–range planning process. We have been raising money for the LRP through the campaign, I am just not sure of the total.

We have interviewed and are impressed with Unicom(www.unicomarc.com). Which if hired, Unicom will solicit volunteers from all areas of the community, with diverse backgrounds and varied expertise to serve on the Facilitation Team that will build the LRP.

yeah it was him jeff roe him and axiom both were high tailing it out of town in ed catron's van! ed catron maybe should sell some of his slums he owns and that way he would not have to oppose such an important tax, as for his comment about the petitions being passes around the schools for teachers to sign it is a choice you have to have so many signatures to run for school board position and those teachers can choose to sign or not to sign if they want but they have to be a registered voter and live in the city obviously! he is just upset he didn't think of that idea first.

The process going forward must also be completely transparent (ie. who is involved, what decisions are made & what criteria was used to make them, how much money has been contributed and by whom, etc, etc). Being transparent is the only way the broad community can trust that games aren't being played behind the scenes. There should be nothing in the community engagement process that is withheld.

mm1967, I think you are confusing the role of a facilitator with that of a participant. A facilitator is there to get the participants to bring out their views in a coherent manner and avoid the unproductive personal bickering illustrated by some on these postings. Not everyone is cut out for the job of a facilitator. Frankly from reading your postings that is not a job you would enjoy. You seem to be more interesting in making your points as to how the district should be run. Your role would be that of a participant. Facilitators are not selected because they hold a particular viewpoint, but because they have the skill and ability to lead a session without injecting their personal views.

If you think you have the necessary skills to be a facilitator then you should apply.

I am not on the Task Force, have never attended a meeting (for various reasons like child care) and am not an employee of the district.

Tama and johnahickman, sounds like a plan. Can we work together to establish a community wide process to develop no more than 7 measurable goals? We can start here. For example one goal could be to increase the performance on the MAP test of schools west of Noyes Blvd. by 25%. We need to have a plan that show success.

I am really encouraged by the tone of these discussions. It is never easy to move a large group of people in one direction, but it can be done when those involved care more deeply about the cause--in this case our children--than they do about their own opinions. I feel hopeful that as a community we can work together to give our children the best education available. I will be watching for ways I can help.

noneya, wasn't it you who one time received compassion from commentors about the possibility of you losing your job? Where is your compassion now? I would suggest all who have tried to rub some noses in this, to remember Proverbs 16-18. "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall". Be careful and remember, we ALL care for the children. I do congratulate the district for its win. I voted for it. However, I still hope that the board gets out to the schools and the administration does, in fact, get a community relations plan. I also will remind some of you about one of my earlier posts, when I referred to passing this levy as somewhat like "kissing your sister". No REAL, concrete planning will result from this, except to allow the status quo to be kept. I would STILL like to know the story behind Axioms' involvement.

noneya: "Only goats gloat gleefully!"
People in glass houses.... Teachers and school district employees are PUBLIC employees. Their accomplishments or lack thereof can be matters of public record. Many employees have better salaries than most of St. Joe; better health insurance; and must better job security.

Happiness with humility might have been a better response.

Give noneya a break, she/he had to read negative posts for past six months about the place she works and cares about, how would you feel if that were you? Still she reads negative comments, it's not easy.

Mrs Waggner how far off is your group from reaching the goal of the 80,000 to pay this group and what info has been gotten on other groups that do the same thing as Unicom Arc?
I mean this is a process and whoever is better at what they do is what way I would go.I s the TF garenttee that after all of this work is done the SJSD/SJSB is gonig to buy into this.Is there a firm committment on their part to do this?I think this would be a first step getting their commitment to follow the recommendations of this group after the community works with them to come up with a plan and spent all of this money.

Has anyone forgot about this being another INCREASED tax hike?...Well I guess its ok even though the water co. is going to increase the water bill and naturally the Light bill will go up not to mention the gasoline we need to get to work with. Well But now think about this, They board members will sneak in a pay raise of several thousands of dollars per person, So what the heck the school system will deep throat their way to get anything even mess with the counting of the ballots. I for one was opposed to this because I am strapped financially and if anyone out there can say they are not then Please call me and I will be that missing uncle in your family.

Now, getting to work:
1) Class size is a huge issue. 40 years ago teachers could teach 35-40 students at a time. There were few behavior problems; learning involved instruction/lecture, practice, application in class and homework; parents backed up teachers and so did principals; students who did not want to learn dropped out by age 16 or before.

Today, there are lots of behavior problems, only some parents back the teacher--many go out for the teacher's blood; only some principals back their teachers if they aren't trying to get rid of them; some principals want to be the friends of the children; others think the are "educational leaders" and make classroom control solely "the teacher's problem."

Teaching today involves a lot of involvement with each student in every subject and leading individual and group research. Today's standards: K-2= 20 students or less;
3-4= 24 or less; 5-8=26 or less; high school=variable by subject with no more than 30 except possibly for a sport, band, orchestra or choir that requires more.

There are definite differences in the character of a class with 25 students and one with 30. That difference affects instruction. A disruptive, emotionally disturbed or resistant student can actually take the time and attention usually devoted to 3 students. Very small kindergartens in schools where many students come not knowing their letters or numbers would be a very good investment since what they do in the first years will affect every year that comes after.

Do not--do not accept district or building averages as low class size. Every class must fall into the lowered class size.

The school board should be required by the public to change the policy on class size and reduce the sizes immediately.
Paras should be hired to help teachers with large classes immediately. Next year additional teachers and classrooms should be set up to implement the class size reduction.

Class size adjustment must come first, before salaries.
It's time to get specific.
By the way, class size reduction is an unfulfilled promise from 2004 levy election.

cadaver - the school district does not count the votes, the county election officials do. Please, just because a vote did not go your way do not make those kinds of commnets. Also you may be happy to know you will see a decrease in your property tax this year. Next year the property tax will go back to what you paid a year ago. If you want to call that an increase, okay. Also all those things you say are going up, they go up for the schools as well that is why they needed the levy. Hopefully you can take advantage of the break this year and be in better position next year finacially.

As for pay raises, they don't get sneaked in, they are all public record.

Apple/sence
people have given her or him a break along with some advice.This person needs to be happy that this passed and they still have a job and remember 4 or 5 they could be worried again about their job.They should not be acting the way they did toward anybody we all are tax payers which is where their wages come from.

Peoplerule,
I agree we need to address the class sizes we have now and we need to do it imediately if not sooner.If these are the standards which you listed above our schools every class is above that and we could have easily 4 classes for each grade level.We now have 3 classes for every grade level.I wonder if this issue is going to be addressed?And if it is when.

I hate people who say they make a living off of thier tax dollars, you know what, they also spend in most cases more time than parents do with their kids. They put up with more on their jobs than most do and get very little thanks for it. Yes, people should be happy they have a job and that taxpayers pay for it, but that does not mean you own them, or can degrade them. Thats what many did on these posts leading up to the election, degrade them.

Im a taxpayer, I don't think families who are able to have their kids eat due to free and reduced lunch owe me any thanks or I should tell them they should be grateful and listen to me degrade them.

You always say you want engagment respect goes both ways, taxpayers need to understand when you post after post negative comments, it can lead to negativity in return

grrrrrrrrr......thats all i can say...time to find a new county worthy of living in i guess b/c this one is getting more and more blind of the nonsense going on...

Apple/Sence
thats a 2 way street and I beg to differ with you my wife and myself spend more time with our children then they do.
Also you are correct about the negitivity statement and noneya needs to listen to this as well.And the tax payers do pay the district employess pay and we deserve their respect as we deserve the board and admins respect.You give respect and you will recieve respect.

dont let the door hit ya on the way out -

mm - you are the minority like many who keeps posting here, your negativity is not what this community needs. For some reason you think its okay to posts and disrespect these people but they shouldn't stand up for themselves?

Your going to dish it, you better be able to take it back - I say good for her - I second it and third it - why don't you start giving some respect and you might get some back -

Sorry you think this apple but thefact remains I have been asking question relasted to how this group is going to bring this community together and I feel that is positive.With the question I have asked I have been getting responses to them.
All I was sayin to her was the comments she had made does not help in the long range palnning as other have as well you are the one who cannot let it go as usual.
As far as negitivity this will go away as the long rangeplanning atarts and people see that everything is transparents and people from all walks of life and all areas of town are involved and we are moving forward in the right directions.I also like to say I took you first comment to this article a little snotty on your part asking if the southend had been reported yet.For youe info I vote in the southeast end pretty close to the belt highway.And I know exactly what you comment meant.You areslipping into your old ways.

I asked because at the time the vote was close and wanted to know if precents had been voted or were left to be voted. Most school elections the south end votes no - asking the question was just being politicaly aware of election patterns and wanting information to forecast an outcome - thats not snooty, thats just asking a question.

Again - you go out of your way to find fault -

Again, most of you are bantering and hurling or denying insults or personal comments. Enough.

What format should we use to bring the community into the discussion: meetings, survey, focus groups, mass meetings with the board.

How do we get people who don't trust the officials to meet with them or with a neutral moderator to express their thoughts and give and receive information?

What are the issues that the informed people who blog here believe the community and the board should address?

Let's get a substantive discussion going.

usedtobe

Absolutely, we can work together to establish a process and develop goals. Kevin Kirby is spearheading this effort for OCOFOD, if you'd like please e–mail your contact information c/o Kevin at ourchildrenfuturedecision.com, or if you prefer watch for organizing information in the media.

mm1967

I am not sure how much we've raised/or have commited. I'll find out when we regroup in the next couple weeks to develop a strategy to raise the remaining funds.

Kevin Kirby has pulled together extensive research on groups that specialize in community engagement. Kevin believes Unicom is the best choice.

We do have a commitment from the SJSD/SJSB. They will be involved in the LRP process and then implement the plan.

Mrs Waggner,
I appreciate the info from you.I would hope that the TF will involve people from the opposition which is people like myself people from the public that are skeptical of the process.
I also agree very strongly with Mr Hickman all things must be transparent and open to let the community as a whole see how things are going.I will all ways say and believe it is going to take people from all ares of our community and all walks of life for we can get a plan that the entire community can support.
I do want what is best for my children and the community's children and look forward to see this move forward and see what the out come maybe.
Where do we get info from to keep us upto date and being involved?I would also hope that the people from ACE have a chance to be involved with this as well.Are you all open for their participations Mrs Waggner?I mean they had alot of people in this town actually support their ideas as well and how much better could it be both side working together for the community.This also would show that the TF was open for other opinions.We all need to swallow our pride and work together and I truely hope this is the direction this goes.I am a advid supporter of community involvement from all areas and all ideas from all people.And if this is going to take 14 months we have plenty of time to do this community engagement.Ithink ACE people and their supporter and the Tf need to work together for the betterment of our schools and "EVERYBODY "must be willing and open to this.I would appreciate a response Mrs waggner on some of my questions here I have asked and contact info I asked for pleae.Have a good evening.And thank you for asnswering my questions.

Tama thanks for the advice. I will call Kevin. mm1967 thanks for you willingness to get involved. The consultant or the TF may use a problem solving process called PASTE or another one called community values voting. Both involve all sides of an issue. But, the outcome has the risk that your ideas or mine will not be the final outcome. But, you and I have been heard.

I sure wish they would have voted to give me my job back, before they take more money away from me. Nothing changes, schools arent going to open back up...Melodie just gets her raise this year.

What is the point in fighting on here? The levy has passed and it is done and over with. Those of you who wished the levy didn't pass can't change what happened. And there are so many of you complaining on here about all of this, how many of you were employed by the school district and lost their jobs? Those are the real people who should get to voice their say so. How many of you have children on here? I keep reading about the tax increase being so terrible. For those of us who have children it isn't that bad. I agree with peoplerule that classroom sizes are too large. That needs to change. And as far as raises go, I can tell you for a fact that they are not huge raises. I have a good friend who worked for the district and who also lost her job. She got a .02 raise in 2008. 2 CENTS!
It's time to quit chewing each other out and deal with the fact that the levy passed and no one can change it!

Congratulations to the SJSD, I was pretty sure a SunSet would do the Trick ! NOW let's get off this subject, and to the Task at hand !

Be Blessed
Steve-O

It is pleasantly reassuring to see the cooperative tone of the exchanges between most of those commenting. That is encouraging!!!

I would like to clarify my comment regarding transparency and "game playing." I do not perceive that games have been played by anyone with respect to the long range plan and frankly, don't anticipate it. By being transparent in all activities, the community engagement process can be a significant force in building trust and bridges to all areas of our community.

Here are some simple examples of transparency that I believe are helpful and easy to achieve:

1) Names of invdiduals who are involved in the review process of choosing a consultant to help with community engagement.
2) The criteria being used to select the consultant.
3) A list of consultants considered and sublist of those contacted/interviewed for more information.
4) If Unicom is chosen and a Facilitating Team is formed:
a) list of all names nominated/submitted to serve
b) Criteria used for selection of FT members
c) List of names chosen to serve on FT and a method to contact each directly.

These are simple examples of easy ways we can be transparent and build trust going forward. Let's hope our community leaders take advantage of this opportunity!

Let's set expectations appropriately. The point of transparency isn't that everyone will agree with all decisions. The point is that everyone can observe the decisions made and draw their own conclusions about what is going on. We will have to agree to disagree from time to time - but we have to agree there won't be secrets.

Excellent post, John. Very reasonable expectations. Tama, is this something that the TF will agree to?

Should a a 4) d) Names of those choosing the FT members.

oops - typo - Intended to say, "Should add a" instead of should a a.

In reading all these posts, I find myself asking just how many people are involved in this thing, anyway? So many different people, so many different meetings, leading to...what? The administration formulates the policy. The board passes or doesn't pass on it. Somehow this whole thing sounds like...we are going to have a large group representing the community, which will,in turn, break down into subgroups, which will discuss all of their great ideas. The subgroup will then return to the group and they will all share what wisdom they have imparted. From there, I assume, it will go to the board, whom I am also sure will have their own ideas, and then it will be to the district leadership, who will then...DO WHAT THEY HAD PLANNED TO DO, anyhow. I guess my warning here is this: Don't get too excited about this plan until you are personally consulted. It just sounds to me like they have a small boat with a lot of people on it. At what point are there so many oars in the water that the boat can't move forward? Also, remember, we elected the board members, who hired the administration. Those are the people who are responsible for what happens. It is their job to correspond and get input from the community--nobody else's.

dilly - you make excellent points. Ultimately, the SJSD BOE must agree to retain the consultant and give them direction regarding engaging the community. The SJSD BOE & Admin must also be willing activley participate in the process. I believe both are prepared and willing.

It is important to remember that this ultimately begins with the voters, not the BOE. The BOE derives its authority from the voters who elect them. The BOE sets the policy and the Admin implements it.

If enough voters are united around an approach, the BOE will either deliver what the voters wish or suffer the voter's wrath. It is one of the reason the sunset clause is harmful as an accountability tool - it puts the focus on the levy campaigns and not on the BOE elections.

This will be a difficult process to navigate, but if everyone continues to put St. Joe's Kids first, I am confident we will end up in the right place.

Dillygent,
I believe you are rightbut I am going to give them the benefit of doubt till I see there is no transparentcy,honesty and community engagement a whole.I also believe the district has the final say in the long range plan but Mrs Waggner told me that the district has commited to the plan this community comes up with.I hope it is not just a dog and pony show to push Mrs Smiths flawed vision for our community's school off on us.But only time will tell.
We will also have 2 new board members come april and one could only hope they are pro community which will make it hard on the remaining board member not to be pro community and engage the community.The trust thing is going to be hugh for them to over come but they have their chance and they better take full advantage of it.
I did ask if the TF was goingto engage the people from ACE and let them work with them as well because this would show that they are willing to work with everybody but as of yet I have no answer from Mrs Waggner which has been on here posting and answering questions.I would like this answer and for the community to see they are willing.

With due respect ot Ms. Wagner, I don't beleive this is the proper setting for these discussions. I understand John and yougotta excited but cornering her into committing to positions on these postsi is not proper. Theses discussions should be held in public forums where everyone has an opportunity to express opinion. I would hate it if in two months Ms. Wagner would have to answer to what she said on these posts, that is why I like hidden identities on these posts.

I still have a problem with ACE for I don't beleive they represent as much of the community opinion as they claim. Lets move these discussioin into a more open public forum.

I will appoint myself as the diligent watcher of what their decisions are. I am sure there are others who will be here also. I "ain't" goin' anywhere. If they advertise themselves as a community group, they should darned well be a community group. Adding Heritage, MM, John A. Hickman and ACE to their committees, would be a great place to start.

It should not matter where questions to Mrs Waggner are asked and answered.This is a public form and the public has the right to see thier groups ideas and how they plan on the long term plan for the schools.
Apple/sence let the ACE thing go and this is why I asked if the TF was going to work ith the people from ACE as well.This does not seem as it is getting off to a good start.

sure include them, however with the understanding their voice is singular and holds no more weight than anyone else in the process, I don't know if those you list understand thier place in those discussions, after all, Sarah is 0-3 in these matters.

I am with you dillygent.And if you claim to be a community group as they have they need to be a little more open.It should not matter where questions are coming from on here or over the telephone.
I appreciate the answers I got from Mrs Waggner but the clock is ticking and we need to get moving on this.The verdict is still out with me on the TF sincerness to the community and working with the community.But prove me wrong please.

Apple/sence I think we know our voices are only one as everyones elses are but to get this moving people from both sides of this issue needs to be involved this will keep this a open and more transparent process.And it is a good way to show good faith on the TF part and a way for the trust issue to be addressed as well.

thats all good and fine, the election just ended, Im sure the process will be moving forward, I don't think we need a million posts until then

that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

sense November 5, 2009 at 8:13 p.m. "I would hate it if in two months Ms. Wagner would have to answer to what she said on these posts"

Tama is a very experienced communications expert. She can handle herself quite effectively. Why would we not expect Tama to answer for her words AND actions, regardless of the medium?

I do, however, agree with you that this discussion needs to be held in a different forum and am looking forward to the community engagement process beginning.

I do not see a problem with Mr Waggner or any of the TF members answering questions on here it give the public a chance to see there answers and hold them accountable for their answers.
I am also looking for the community engagement to start to see how it is actually handled.
But the answers have stopped coming makes one wonder if there will be any transparentcy and honesty or community engagement.

mm1967. Maybe the TF members are also volunteers. Maybe they are working nights on a process that engages all the community just like you suggested. I sense that they have heard community input on what it takes to regain trust.

Maybe I'm guilty of reading too much into these comments, but I thought that the school district was going to have to come back and ask for more money within 2 years. If that is true, they had better be talking...NOW. Fifty-one percent on the Ping Poll said that the levy passed BECAUSE of the sunset. That is NOT overwhelming support. That is NOT conducive to extending or building on anything. I also found that thirty-nine percent NOT caring for Jeff Roe, to be interesting. Maybe they need Mr. Roe to always run the anti-tax campaign--sort of the Washington Generals to the Harlem Globe Trotters sort of thing. I still think the best communication would be televised board meetings in different areas of town. The City Counsel has City Talk meetings throughout the city. It might be good for the school district.

I propose we let everyone catch their breath. Remember, they have spouses, children and jobs too.

Regardless of your position on what is now behind us, let's acknowledge that many people work countless hours for nothing more than a thank you, and are preparing to work countless more hours for the same. They stepped up and fulfilled their civic duty, and then some.

I am confident everyone wants to capitalize on the momentum gained by the levy passage, but they are human, after all. I bet there is some kind of activity in the next two weeks on the community engagement effort.

In reading into the ping poll, looking at the demogarphics of those who post on these stories and interact online, they seem to be mostly people in opposition of the district, with that in mind, I would not put as much emphasis into reading polls as well since they would tend to match the demos of those posting.

Keep in mind mm was claiming easy defeat based on the an online poll - it did not come out that way.

apple semce there was 2000 less voter that just thought why vote they are just going to shove down our throats what they want.I wish tose 2000 plus would have voted and I think we just might not being having this conversation.You must not get out in the rest of the community to much.

I do agree with your 9:15 AM comment, Sense, but what is the demographic of the average St. Joe voter? I hear of more people claiming to read these posts than the number of us who actively participate. It's safer to ping, or click on a thumb, than it is to write a full comment, which may be met with vitriol. As for me, personally,you, as much as anyone, know that I have not been kind in my evaluation of the administration and board. However, it offended me when the board members, who are volunteers, were classified as "clowns." I think they have been unresponsive to both their staff and the public, but it was totally disrespectful to call them, "clowns."

mm, not everyone has the time or the ability to sit at their computer all day posting online and demanding responses. I'm sure Ms. Wagner (or Mr. Waggner to you) has a job, a family and a life and cannot engage you in debate right now. Don't assume lack of response equates to lack of transparency or honesty.

Reading these posts, there is some very constructive conversation on here, and that is a good thing, but the reality is this sunset clause approach does not addresss future state. Before all the long range ideas, proposed consulting groups, etc, come into play in my view, the focus really needs to be how does the community become engaged to support long term investment and that begins with the committment to invest in our educational processess properly with what is needed to achieve that. Until that element is overcome, St. Joseph is going to continue to loose out on many opportunities. The comparison of "Springfield not being a St. Joseph" is only an "excuse" to support the existing rationale of thought processes for the present sunset clause approach. That mindset hurts the community as a whole and other much smaller communities who have made significant investments are in much better positions to compete against St. Joseph for those opportunities. We all know what those opportunities are. The unstability of this issue is exactly why Axiom keeps coming back. It is forgotten that back in April, Axiom tried to kill the permenant levy because of lack of a sunset clause. Now they came back in attempt to kill the entire thing. Sort of a "Catch 22" in my view. Axiom in my opinion really did not totally loose. They succeeded in keeping St. Joseph from progressing in its educational processes for the long term future for the next 5 years, based on their original rationale. They came back to go for 100% and the public got upset, I am betting some voted yes just to send a message to Axiom. That thought process did not really send any message. My vote No had nothing to do with support for Axiom, etc, I believe the group is sponored by people who want to literally hold back St Joseph and other communities throughout the country against competing for any future opportunities in business, recruiting new companies, etc, to further the agenda of the communities they want to compete. Community unstability on issues like this breed that. My vote No was to encourage the issue to come back to the table with what is truly needed, the OCOFOD's own statements support the fact the sunset clause is not an effective means of doing business. So in my view, support for the sunset clause does in a way support Axioms agenda and as the future progesses, that is how it should be viewed as, if you hate Axiom, then the community needs to support, invest, and committ totally to future state of its educational processes. Until that is achieved, they will continue to haunt this community and many others who do not envision or support future state thought processes. The OCOFOD and Axiom both sent out flyers in my view that sent the wrong messages. Axiom attacked the district which was clearly wrong, OCOFOD sold the sunset clause without mentioning that they as a group do not believe this an effective means of doing business.

It goes right to a core point of my rationale, the majority base beliefs this was the wrong approach but we argued for it anyway under a "black cloud" scenario which I disagree with and still do. Any attempt to bring this back before 5 years under a permenant levy initiative will create alot of issues within the community. We should of had the confidence as a community to re-argue this case correctly and we did not. The fact we feel the need to bring in consulting groups, etc, means in my view there is still of alot of unresolved issues out there. Back in Apr the district gave a plan for new buildings. If at the end of these meetings, etc, the same exact plan evolves, then nothing was accomplished. We should be working on a premise to address improvement of educational processes and the future state of every area and every school building in town, and work to meet a goal of having the confidence to show off any building and the operation of any school as it relates to its teaching to any potential new comer and future employer without worry. This was a core concern in Apr. It has not been addressed. A committed direction torwards true future state will show those possible new "opportunities" out there we are committed to investing towards that means. That thought process goes right to the core of encouraging any potential new employer to invest, they are looking to invest for the future state of their own companies, if they see a community investing initself in education, news schools, infrastructure, etc, that puts that community into a competitive edge. If not, they will walk away. I just stated in my view some ideas on what the longe range plan process should be looking at. We do not need to spend money on consulting groups to move that, we as a community have the ability to that ourselves. Those ideas are very simple and very straightforward, we are making this much more complicated then it has to be. Goes right to Dillygent1's comments about "groups,subgroups" etc. The challenge is are we committed to do what it takes to achieve that or are we going to battle the same conflicts out over and over again. BOZ44 is right, I will continue to stay involved. Regardless of my viewpoints and I do not expect everyone to agree with them, in my Axiom has won until we truly get behind the sunset clause thought process and commit to investing heavily to achieve the future state. We need to overcome that and keep Axiom from ever gaining any kind of foothold on St. Joseph, because they have one now. Goes to the core of Mr. Roe's statement. We can yell about scoring a "victory" all we want, I am betting when he left he was laughing because St Joseph is still at a setback where that group wants us. The sunset clause only makes an attempt at maintaining, nothing more. When we has a community invest totally to our future state and mitigate any unstability, Axiom will go away, that is how this needs to be approached.

sjsk8robi,
Maybe that just goes to prove the SJSB/SJSD should be working with the community on the long range plan because they have plenty of time since its their job.They should have plenty of time.

John, the reason for some of my concerns is not really based with the school district.I think it is really based in the community. I pointed out in another post, and will repeat here, that there was a time when businesses were recruited here for its low tax base and its low salaries. The head of the Chamber of Commerce, then, is now an officer of Triumph Foods. The schools are producing students that are qualified to handle more complex jobs, but these people are leaving, due to low salaries. The schools can't fix that problem because they have to ASK for money. A simple majority passes a levy, but a majority is required to pass a bond. If people are barely making ends meet, a request for more money from the school district, is sometimes considered nice, but not a luxury that a family can afford.

John, just as a little addition to my previous post...I am not very kind to the district administration and board, as it relates to community and public relations. If this community, as a whole, through a decent salary structure, could actually feel that they could support more for the schools, the community relations aspect, that I feel they lack, would not be as important. But the fact is that this community does not get paid very well, and they have to watch their money.

dilly: two brilliant comments that go to the essence of the community problem. But low salaries effect children too. Studies show as salaries increase so does school performance.

Looking at it differently: 40-90% of St Jo students on free and reduced lunch; many students came to school without breakfast until the district started free breakfasts; back-pack buddies for weekends.

Low incomes and poverty means that many children don't have new clothes each year, 40-60% or more have unstable or broken families; low income also corelates to 1/2 the preschool communication with parents, lower vocabulary, and in some cases not knowing letters, numbers or even the idea of symbols for language before they go to school.

Of course, the are exceptions: couples with low incomes that do all they can for their children.

Still, since they do not have the clothes, toys, computers, it becomes apparent to themselves and other children that they are different--sometimes in some schools they feel inferior and, if they are behind when they start kindergarten, they fall further and further behind.

You get the picture. This is not bleeding hearts. This is what happens over and over in the lives of children.
Did I mention that some move frequently--for jobs, because they don't have the rent. Of course, too, some adults have lifestyle problems: alcohol, drugs, theft, jail, spousal or child abuse.

So St. Joseph needs better paying jobs like but not limited to Boehringer. WalMart and other similar retail guarantees poverty. Some can get above it by working two or three jobs, but then parenting doesn't.

St. Joseph will not progress until it deals with endemic poverty and low wages.

Axiom represents people who believe axiomatically that the private sector always can perform better than the public sector/government. They believe that smaller government is better for taxpayers and for the whole country.

They believe that denying government money will improve the country by reducing the size of government. Schools are taxing agencies so they too are government. Moreover, according to them, schools are failing and do not deserve to keep the funding they have. They believe it should be shifted to private, parochial or corporate-run schools.

Many fallacies:
the private sector cannot and would not educate everyone.
corporate-run schools have not worked very well; some private or parochial schools have. It is hard to tell since they do not have to take the same tests as public school students.

some private schools also cherry-pick students with better chances of success.

peoplerule, it is not evil to believe that the first solution to a problem is not a government program. Most of the time this is true. Examples abound. Drive down Gene Field in front of BI on the new concrete road constructed by our local government. Washboard is a kind description. Drive down Faraon St. constructed by a local contractor. Smooth as a baby's bottom. St. Joseph had an illiteracy problem. Who addressed it? The schools ... no. The United Way with their Success by Eight program. See, it does not have to be the for profit sector, but the private sector can move quicker, cheaper and more effectively. On education, there is a large body of research developing which shows that charter schools also tend to make the public schools better. It's called competition.

Now as to Axiom. Axiom is not a "conservative" or some such outfit. Axiom is the political equivalent of a street walker. Will do anything for a buck. Nothing more, nothing less. It has found paying clients by espousing a certain type of political philosophy. If it could make money by advocating big government it would. Please don't confuse those with honest beliefs about the role of government in our lives with Axiom.

drb, music to my jaded ears, that.

Which part?

BTW, since Halloween is just past, imagine Jeff Roe dressed as a streetwalker. Just sort of curls your toes.

And so now the "American Majority and Sam Adams followers come out -

I said this before, build any school you want with your money, leave the public schools alone -

Your comparision about road construction, who paid for both, taxpayers - it stil takes tax money

For those of you interested in the LRP/community engagement, please check out the open letter from Kevin Kirby just posted on http://www.stjoekids.com. He needs our help.

sense/apple - so, as long as your views are considered, forget about everyone elses? That's a nice approach - sure to win friends and influence people!

How about we keep an open mind and consider the possibility that by considering multiple perspectives, especially ones that differ from our own, we might gain insights that we didn't previously possess.

In other words, how about keeping an open mind!

sense, the point was not who pays, but the quality of the product delivered.

it seems those who want me to keep an open mind are only concerned with that approach to what they believe to be important.

so I don't get your point, the public school system is not ran by the goverment.

JHohn,
I read Mr Kirby's open letter and I think this is a gret first step.I do however have 1 issue and that is some of the past things will have to bew addressed to gain trust back if they like it or not.I know schools are not going to be opened back up but the overcrowding issues and class sizes that the levy of 2004 needs to be addressed and our childrens class sized back to where they were last year.And it is a problem that needs addressed.I give Mr Kirby credit for posting his open letter but some of the past has to be addressed.

This will displease some of the posters on here whom I respect, but, until ALL private schools have to do the MAP test, and prove their superiority, which I will even go so far to say, they SHOULD be able to do, I will not change my mind. The public schools have been forced to do every new social program that some legislator thought they should be doing. With that government money, they have to make sure that all civil rights are duly observed. Where do private school students go, who, for whatever reason, are not participating appropriately in a school. Of course, send them to the public school. At one point, I mentioned the SSI program, which basically pays you for what your child DOES NOT do, either behaviorally or academically. Most people when I originally posted this did not believe it, but it DOES exist. It is "disability income". You put the SSI program in a town that pays low salaries, the SSI can become the family income. Until these problems are dealt with, I suggest those of you who are for alternatives, might want to look at your legislator to find out just what is dragging the public schools down.

One other comment about public schools dragging us down... If the schools here are so inferior, how come the graduates can get excellent jobs out of town? Many public school graduates have done quite well, elsewhere. Sense or peoplerule, anybody from Walmart backing the negative vote? They want to start schools.

mm - The items you identify appear to be unresolved, so I would imagine they will be addressed in the new plan.

From my understanding, Unicom will help our community understand a wide variety of issues (an obvious important one is class size) that impact our educational system and then help us prioritize how we address those issues.

JohnH, I will be responding to Mr. Kirby's letter with some things that I believe should be considered. However, I will say this about his letter, and I have said this before, it sounds more of like a job description posting for a consulting group instead of a request for input or ideas. This is almost the exact same letter he posted with the News Press a while back. The group really has to be open to suggestions and thoughts from the entire community. The letter does not convey the message very well. I am one person that is still not totally convinced a consulting group is the right direction. I believe we all know what it truly needed to improve, but for whatever reasons many of those issues are ignored or not addressed. I stated this before, it is simple in my view, when we argue for future state, that means for the long term progression and improvement of all educational processes in all areas, that includes what will be done to buildings that will still be around for a while, improvements to meet NCLB requirements, technology advances, new schools,(what is the plan after they are built, what happens to ther rest of the buildings still in use, any plan or are we going to neglect?), etc. The April initiative kind of addressed that to an extent, but it did not go far enough, that is why it failed in my view. It addressed certain aread and neglected others. When the issues get addressed where all areas will benefit, the buy in will come and we will not consulting groups to help us with that. We need to committ to all of it, not just bits and pieces. As I stated before, along as this issue stays unstable and that is what it is, Axiom will continue to haunt. Seems to me Axiom created alot of emotional turmoil. Well then lets do something about it, argue for what is truly needed, stand by it, get the community buy in for it, and send a "real" message to Axiom. Axiom will continue to have the upper hand as long we do not progess, sunset clause is the continued direction, and we do not invest or committ to address all issues in every area.

John C - if I understand your concerns and what Kevin's initiative is trying to achieve, they are very closely aligned.

You are correct in that Kevin's letter is basically a request for proposals from both:
1) The public regarding approach
2) Consulting firms that can help us design a community engineered plan for our schools.

I agree that many people within out community know what needs to be addressed. What we lack is an independent group that can provide guidance to help us through the planning process.

If you or others have a specific (not conceptual) approach you propose, send it to community@stjoekids.com. If you know of an expert or group that should be contacted, send the info to community@stjoekids.com.

We are at the point where the rubber hits the road and need to get to specifics. Kevin appears to be willing to be transparent with respect to who is involved and what criteria is being used to make decisions. We now must take advantage of this opportunity and provide names and specifics so we can move forward.

Sense, the public schools are part of the government. They are a political subdivision of the state of Missouri same as the City of St. Joseph, Buchanan County, etc.

true as is the statement the goverment does not run the shcools, state does set guidlines, however no goverment official is part of a local school orgamization. The public schools are run by an elected school board of the community who hires people to run their schools.

Really what wrong with our board and administration doing this without a outside group?
Are they not capable of doing this?
Are they scared of what they might have to deal with?
80,000 is a lot of money for something I really personally believe is the job of the SJSD/SJSB.
The outsiders some will not look at it very well and you all know that.Our community does not welcome people from the outside tell us what we need or what to do.Look apple/sence does not like the outside group that was against the levy as well as other do not so what s the difference with have a outside group working for the district?

No it seems as if the schools are being ran by the political run TF (OCOFOD)group.Or it seems as if they are telling them what to do.

MM1967, excellent point that is exactly one major concern I have as well.

Sense, the school board is an elected body just like city council or county commission. It is part of the government plain and simple. It derives all authority from state law. The board are government officials, as are the employees. The district is subject to all sorts of laws like the Sunshine law because it is part of the government. Is there a state of Missouri employee working there? No, but that does not mean they are not part of the government. There are criteria for eligibility for election to the Board just like city council or a particular general assembly seat. I just don't see how you can conclude that the SJSD is not part of the government. It is no less a part of the state government than is a levee district, a sewer district, a city, a village, a county or other such entity.

The state constitution requires the state to provide a free public education and it is provided by its poltical subdivision the school district.

Here is a definition from wikipedia:
A political division is a term of art of geography defining the concept of a geographic region accepted to be in the jurisdiction of a particular government entity. The particular government entity varies as each organizes its operations by further divisions (subdivisions of the state) to further its tasks and satisfy its responsibilities.

mm1967, Mr. Courter, I would caution that just because two people are going in the same direction at the same time on a particular road does not mean that one controls the other. (Naturally, I expect you to respond with a vice versa comment).

drbj - I beg to differ, you say the St. Joseph pupblic schools are part of the goverment, who gets a govermnet check? Anyone get a goverment retirement? Small buisness abide by goverments restrictions and guidelines you are not a goverment official working for a company. The United States Post office is not a goverment agency although it was set up and managed by the goverment. The post master general is not a goverment office.

Political and goverment have seperate meaning. Those sitting on a school board hold no goverment seat. Those running for school board do so without part lines. The St. Jospeh Schools are not goverment ran. They are ran with taxpayers money and by the community.

I think you are way off the reservation on this one. The post office is a government agency. The SJSD is a government entity. Every single district employee is a government employee. Their retirement plan is a public employee retirement plan.

Here is a definition from the Sunshine law:

(4) "Public governmental body", any legislative, administrative or governmental entity created by the constitution or statutes of this state, by order or ordinance of any political subdivision or district, judicial entities when operating in an administrative capacity, or by executive order, including:

(a) Any body, agency, board, bureau, council, commission, committee, board of regents or board of curators or any other governing body of any institution of higher education, including a community college, which is supported in whole or in part from state funds, including but not limited to the administrative entity known as "The Curators of the University of Missouri" as established by section 172.020, RSMo;

(b) Any advisory committee or commission appointed by the governor by executive order;

(c) Any department or division of the state, of any political subdivision of the state, of any county or of any municipal government, school district or special purpose district including but not limited to sewer districts, water districts, and other subdistricts of any political subdivision;

(d) Any other legislative or administrative governmental deliberative body under the direction of three or more elected or appointed members having rulemaking or quasi-judicial power;

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C600-699/6100000010.HTM

The ability to tax necessarily means a government. There are many political elections were the candidate have no official party affiliation. The school district is one. The city council is another. There are no Democratic or Republican candidates.

Again I refer to wikipedia: The United States Postal Service (USPS) is an independent agency of the United States government responsible for providing postal service in the United States. It is one of the few government agencies explicitly authorized by the United States Constitution. Within the United States, it is commonly referred to as the "Post Office", "Postal Service", or "U.S. Mail".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service

mm/John C - With all due respect, the approach that Unicom proposes is complex and not easy to implement. My understanding is that no one within the SJSD Admin or on the all volunteer BOE has the level of training/experience required for a community engagement project of this magnitude. If I were in their shoes, I would want an outside consultant to guide me through this process because of their a) experience and b) independence and c) lack of baggage with groups w/i the community.

Remember, the consultant's role is to help provide a structure and guidance to help our community formulate our own long range plan. Unicom won't build the plan for us.

Also, remember that the Task Force committed to raising the funds for this effort - and they need to follow through on that commitment. I also believe the SJSD needs to have some "skin in the game" and should contribute an amount (i.e. $5k - $10k), so they are also invested in the outcome. But if the Taskforce does as they promise, the SJSD won't be responsible for the bulk of the consulting fee.

dr - so you know, wikapedia is not reconized legimate source of argument. Second, the post office is not ran by the goverment, you are not a goverment employee if you work for the post office. Teachers are not goverment employees, no matter what diffenition you use, if they were they would simply recieve goverment benefits. Your definition defins governing body, which is not the US goverment. Many organizaions and companies have a governing body, that is not the same as the goverment.

God, I'm feeling like mm1967. First wikipedia has become a damn accurate website in many ways. Second, I quoted a Missouri statute to you not something I made up. That is a legitimate source. Public school teachers are government employees as are postal workers. I honestly think you do not understand the structure of our system of governance. Power does not flow from the US government, but rather from the states to the US government via the Constitution (remember state's rights). We have a dual sovereign in this country (federal and state).

The post office: from The United States Code Art. 39 Sec. 101:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/39/101.html

a) The United States Postal Service shall be operated as a basic and fundamental service provided to the people by the Government of the United States, authorized by the Constitution, created by Act of Congress, and supported by the people. The Postal Service shall have as its basic function the obligation to provide postal services to bind the Nation together through the personal, educational, literary, and business correspondence of the people. It shall provide prompt, reliable, and efficient services to patrons in all areas and shall render postal services to all communities. The costs of establishing and maintaining the Postal Service shall not be apportioned to impair the overall value of such service to the people.

hickman, mm1967, courter, apm, pops, heritage, donaldo,

AM I CRAZY HERE?

From your Wikapedia source about the Post Office.

Since its reorganization into an independent organization, the USPS has become self-sufficient and has not received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s. The decline of mail volume due to increased usage of e-mail has forced the postal service to look to other sources of revenue while cutting costs to maintain this financial balance. [2]

more from Wikapedia - noticed civilian employer -

Employing 656,000 workers and 260,000 vehicles, it is the second-largest civilian employer in the United States (after Wal-Mart) and the operator of the largest civilian vehicle fleet in the world. The USPS is obligated to serve all Americans, regardless of geography, at uniform price and quality. Conversely, it has exclusive access to U.S. mail boxes and non-urgent letters. It receives competition from email and package delivery services.

John,
I understand the financial part you are talking about with the TF paying for it but the fact to some extent the admin should know how to engage the community and they should also be smart enough to do some research on how to do this and get it done by themsleves and the public.This would make it where they had to engage all of the community.My fears are the TF is going to blow smoke and tell us they are going to engage all and people from all walks of life and all areas are going to be on the facilitating team but I am skeptical of that.They SJSD could hire a single consultant to guide them to get this started.As long as politicians are involved with the TF I will probably remain very skeptical and the trust issue will always remain there for me as well I assume some of the general public.Remember there was 7000 that voted no for one reason or another and there was 2000 or so that just did not show up for one reason or another That voted in April.The TF has the benefit of the doubt till they show me one wrong move and I will be done believing anything they say.

drbjr,
I believe you are correct.Good luck you are going to need it with Apple/Sence in your correnspondences.

It is an independent agency. Others include the CIA, NASA, EPA, FTC, CFTC, GSA, national archives, NLRB, FCC, FEC, The Fed, Social Security.

Civilian versus military. The postal service is hardly military.

It has no competition on first class mail. Protected by law.

I don't know what your last two lines have to do with anything, as for first class mail, UPS and FedEx offer faster service.

Neither UPS or FedEx offer first class mail. Both have express services.

why is that significant, same service differant name. Why is that important.

drb, conversation is useless, and reason impossible. i must say it is fun to watch the action......

as to unicom ( or what ever firm is chosen) as long as the PR firm is working for an entity which has no elected responsibility to the voters i cannot believe that there is any possible way that the people who are doing the paying will not ultimately control the input.

the unicom folks definitively stated that they could not Force the administration or the BOE to perform to their recommendations. i was reassured more than once that unicom has stated that they will not participate in a process which will not be responsive.

REALLY? this company is going to turn down money? does anyone actually believe that will happen?

what qualifications does kirby have to enable him to properly discern which firm is the most capable? there are literally thousands of specialty education PR firms in this country.

Very different services. Express mail costs at least $15.00 per envelope. My UPS Overnight Saver cost $22.00 on Friday. Delivery in a certain time is guaranteed (next day or 2 day) First class mail is 44 cents. First class mail can be sent registered or certified which have certain legal status.

Of course with all your wealth you can just send everything by FedEx.

sense, as the differences escape you, then when the restaurant gives you a hamburger and charges you for a Kobe steak, you won't charge cause they're both beef.

I have no idea why this is important to the understand if the Post office is a goverment ran organization? What is your point, - also express is two to three day delivery not one. Please explain why these past posts have anything to do with our discussion. Im no wealthy, I would emial a person which is cheaper and faster and if it is a document I would fax.

I see other junp into the conversation without substance - figures

your erroneous assertion was the school district was not part of the government. It is no more not part of the government than the post office.

Heritage,
you bring up a valid point as to Unicom Arc and the TF.I am very skeptical of this process and will be.I think as I have posted the elected Board and the Hired administrators should be able to handle the planning for our schools and be able to engage the community themsleves.And if they are not they could hire a single consultant to guide them.

I think I was wrong with the schools as not goverment, however I don't know if teachers are considered state employess or goverment employees. As for the post office, I belevie I am right with that but I still don't understand what express mail or first class had to do with anything, sorry we got so off topic.

drbjr - your are right on all points. sense/apple may just be playing with you. That argument isn't worth your energy.

mm/h - please understand, from my perspective, a HUGE dose of constant skeptisism is warranted & healthy, given the well documented games the TF played earlier this summer in building support for the levy proposal. I haven't forgotten about that and don't expect/want anyone else to either.

That is why I believe transparency in the community engagement process is so critically important - we can watch every decision, know who was involved and decide for ourself if there were games being played.

My perception is that Mr. Kirby is walking the straight and narrow path. In his letter, he discloses who is involved, what criteria is being used to evaluate firms, a list of some of the firms that have been contacted and finally, he opens to doors to any specific suggestions/recommendations. Frankly, I don't know what more we can ask for at this point.

If you want to do it a different way, send the specific plan to community@stjoekids.com. If you want to use someone else, send it to community@stjoekids.com. If you believe there are people in our community capable and competent to help, contact them and then send their info along with the specifics of the plan of action to community@stjoekids.com. If you think someone in the SJSD Admin "ought" to know how to do this, send their name and title to community@stjoekids.com. If you think we should invest our taxpayers dollars to get members of the SJSD Admin trained in community engagement, send that suggestion to community@stjoekids.com.

In other words - IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO ENGAGE! If you want to be relevant going forward, you can't just sit on the sidelines and identify what "ought" to be, you must put on your work clothes, get your hands dirty and help!

I am not saying that as an insult, but rather a call to action for a different approach. We need everyone!

h - November 8, 2009 at 7:41 p.m. "what qualifications does kirby have to enable him to properly discern which firm is the most capable?"

You make an excellent point. Please send the name(s) of people you believe to be qualified to make the discernment to community@stjoekids.com - the time for just asking tough questions is over - we must now work to also find the tough answers!

Here's another concept replace Mrs Siemns like Mr Kirby said is involved with this committee with Mr Snethen and then I would be less skeptic.
Also We could send these people several emails telling them what we feel is right and I would say this is for the SJSD/SJSB to do the job they want to do and it would fall upon deaf ears I am sure.
I am sorry John but I feel that I cannot trust this group and that the district should and could do this themselves at this point.Even yourself have said the TF has played games and I believe and could be wrong will continue to play games with us till the politicians are not involved with this group.

mm - uh, you are missing the point, which is with transparency, you will be able to determine for yourself what is going on. That doesn't always mean you will agree with every decision.

If you don't try, you will never know. If you don't try and later want to complain about the results, your complaints should & will fall on deaf ears. Now is your chance. If you don't take advantage of your chance, you have no one to blame but yourself - and we won't see you as a victim.

You don't have to trust to try. You trust after you try and receive feedback that the people you are working with are trustworthy. You can't build trust unless you try - it is a two way street. Ask yourself, what specific actions have you taken, with respect to the initiative of community engagement, that has been worthy of building trust with those involved? I am not saying you aren't trustworthy, I am saying trust is something that is built over time. If you don't try, there is no way to build trust!

It is no longer acceptable to just complain - we must work together to try to find the solutions to the problems.

PS - to my knowledge, there are no politicians actively involved in the community engagement activity - just Mr. Kirby, Dr. Smith & Mrs. Siemens. I am with you, however, if I were to hand pick another BOE member to add to this group, it would be Mr. Sneethen.

PPS - John C & H know me and H has my contact info. Feel free to get in touch if you want to chat in person.

I have so much enjoyed reading about the mail services. One thing is for sure, the post office is/is not a government entity. Period. Sometimes I think there are so many people trying to stir the school district pot that it is going to be hard to get all of the ladles in to stir it. I especially thought that the district donating money for a community plan to be interesting because I could just see the people being critical, saying, see, the district doesn't know what to do with the money. No, this still begins with the board and administration. The administration is paid a decent salary to formulate plans. The board is duly elected and their job is to support the ideas when they feel it is appropriate to do so. I still feel the district should follow the lead of the city and have meetings in different areas of town and TELEVISE them, UNedited for transparency. The more groups involved, the more you get involved in political clusters. It is kind of what a legislator goes through with lobbyists. "We will help you if you go our way". Get into the communities, find out their concerns, and see if anything can be done.

Drbjr, no, you are not "crazy" public school districts being a government entity is right on target.

JohnH, I may not totally subscribe to the present direction of the Long Range Committee group, but I will stay open minded about their thought processes moving forward. I do believe this issue has become far more complex then it has to be. I had a very interesting conversation with someone earlier today about other elements independent of this group that may take place soon that were very encouraging to hear. Those elements are indirectly related and I have to admit it was nice to hear about other elements besides the OCODOF and the LRC philosophies. I will engage the LRC with alternatives to consider before leaping to Unicorn. The point about district administration was to bring into the debate about a responsibility the administration should to already have some kind of a long range plan in place, such as the future of buildings, future improvements, etc. Why not ask the district for those plans before we develop a whole new concept and see what is already out there. Example, April's vision, take that concept, dust it off, see what is there and expand on it or redevelop it to address all needs and all areas. Look to see what else previous administrations may have proposed but never took hold. Why re-invent the wheel when the work may have already been done in the way of future planning, just never implemented, probably because operating under a sunset clause created unstability, making those projects null and void.

MM1967-JohnH is a stand up individual and he makes good reccomendations for everyone on here who posts.

Regardless of where everyone is at on the issues, I strongly suggest everyone follow thru with what JohnH has to say and then if you don't get a response, you have your answer like as stated, but at least you tried to convey your thoughts and suggestions to Mr. Kirby's letter. Take a crack at it, see what falls out, then make decisions based on a response, or lack of. However it turns out, at least an effort was made.

jah IS a stand up guy!!!!!

i sent in a long list of questions earlier. will all questions and their answers , in the interest of clarity and transparency, be posted on the stjokids site? as of now, i do not see mine posted?

JAH......do you think that, in the interest of conversation, you might also install some kind of a "chat room" for discourse on stjoekids? i think that would be a great service.

Heritage,
I wonder why these questions you sent were not posted.Maybe they just did not want to answer or they put them on the spot and had no answers.
Little things like this is where the trust issue comes in they post what they want and delete when they are put one the spot.
Here's a idea why doesn't Mr Kirby Mrs Siemens and Mrs Smith and include Mr Snethen and have a public meeting instead of this online thing for the public can attend and ask questions and have the media there to cover it for the entire community that cannot make it see and hear some of the questions.Dillygent has the right idea get out in the community and have several meetings in different areas of town and also put these on the district TV channel for the people who cannot get there or maybe cannot get out for one reason or the other to see. This is transparentcy.But I am a firm believer if Mr Snethen is willing he needs to be added to this group.
John H,
I will contact H to get your info from Her thank.I think you want what is best as I do but I feel the trust issue is hugh and we need to see some signs of them to put this trust thing to rest.

JC & H, thanks for the kind references. What I really enjoy about knowing both of you is that we can agree, disagree and agree to disagree and still respect each other. It helps make the banter and exchange of ideas fun.

mm/h - A few things:

1) I am not sure it is reasonable to expect that all correspondence sent to an email address at stjoekids.com will be publicly published. However, can also understand why wanting transparency is important, so we will have to find a reasonably & healthy balance. Again, we have to be reasonable and realize that those responding are volunteers and have spouses, children and other community service project in which they are involved.

2) I am sure other meeting will take place and a plan of action will be forthcoming. The bottom line is, to move forward, we are going to have to trust someone to do something. We can't just sit back and take pot shots at every single action - we won't get anywhere. Mr. Kirby is being all that we are asking him to be, let's realize he has a wife, 2 great kids, a job, and is involved in the community. Let's give him a little slack to observe the results produced, before we second guess him - or better yet - let's ask what we can do to help him!

At the end of the day, if we are patient, we may all get the end result for which we wish.

PS - Remember, send suggestions/questions/comments to community@stjoekids.com. This is your chance! Speak now or forever hold your peace!

John H
I will send a email to this address you gave us with some wuestions and we will see If I get answers.
I also did not get that contact info for you today but I will.
I will take H and John C at their word you are a stand up guy.

you have some wuestions for the wascaly wabbit

Apple/Sence
Grow up it was a simple typo if you look the Q is right Beside the W.Get a life.

I have a comment that would help the school board's image as being at least, open. Why do they start their board meetings at 5:30, as advertised? It almost appears that they kind of just want to sneak it through, and maybe nobody will ever notice they met. I just talked to somebody who attended the meeting tonight. According to that person, the meeting consisted of primarily administrators and three or four civilians. I can see why the administrators would be for it. They can home early after they are done and not have to go back to the board meeting. It seems to me that with transparency as an issue, the least they could do, if they are determined to keep the meetings downtown, is to make them at a time more might come.

sorry mm - thought is was kind of funny.

dill - do you really think anyone would show up no matter what time they have those meetings.

Dillygent
you are correct at 5:30 pm people are busy doing the family thing.Sitting down to dinner,helping their children with their home work,ect,ect.
They know this and this is why they do it for they do not have to deal with the public questions and concerns.
I have Like what you have sequested for several month they need to get out in the community and have some of these meeting around town and they also should show them on their TV cahannel for the public to see and then if they have question they can make up their mind if they want answers from the SJSD/SJSB.
Look our city council has city talk where they go out into the community in different areas so what the heck is wrong with the SJSD/SJSB doing it.
And as far as transparentcy I do not really think they know what that is.
They need to change their meeting times and hold meetings out in the community.

mm - got your info from h today. Will give you a jingle.

mm - not to get personal or anything but I read in another post you had just lost your job with a plant closing. It seems being a manager and out of work you have put your total focus and attention to the local school issues. Get away from it. You have a void that you are trying to fill with the lost of your management job. Its hard to be someone in charge and have that taken from them, you are trying to find purpose but I can tell you, this is not where your going to find it - just a thought for you to think about - hope you find employment and I am sorry to hear of your situation.

Sense, at least they could say that they tried to get public input,if they had the board meetings at a more convenient time. But a meeting at 5:30 PM, at the main office, in a reasonably small room (when you add the public), is NOT showing a willingness to have dialogue with the public. In a room that small, with so many administrators present, I would suspect it would be rather intimidating for a school staff member, or a civilian, to want to go in and speak to the board.

John H
Like I said I will email those questions I have and will wait for the answers.But you touched on something and said that the district admin and board were more aless not qualified to do the engagement process and everything that this Unicom Arc is able to do.But are they not able to start the process on their own and run it instead of the TF what make anybody on the TF better positioned to do this then the SJSB/SJSD?
Kinda hard to believe with the TF paying Unicom Arc that they will not just do what the people paying them tell them to do.
If this was done by the SJSD/SJSB they could be held accountable.Maybe the TF could donate the money to the district to hire this group and run this themselves cutting out the TF altogether.
There would be more transparentcy this way I believe.

true, but I find those who want tranparency are like a five year who never plays with a toy but only wants it when a friend comes over and picks it up.

What I find kind of interesting, I received my property tax in the mail last week so I imagine many did, no chatter about major savings or reaction to the property tax.

Apple/Sence first thank you.But I work with several management search recruiters throughout the area.Employment will come for me.The hardest part was telling people that they were not going to have a job in this current job market and right before Christmas.
I have put a lot of focus on the school issue long before my job situation because of what I believe is either right or wrong for my children and their education.
I have time now and want to get involved for what I feel is right for my children and the community's children.I have the time and I am not in financial ruins by no means.

mm - If I am not mistaken, your suggested approach is how this is moving forward. Please understand there is much to be defined.

Right now, those involved in the community engagement effort are Kevin Kirby (community), Melody Smith (SJSD Admin) and Sarah Siemens (SJSD BOE). Before we take pot shots, let's give them a few days to get organized and see what happens.

My understanding is one proposal has the financial contributions going to the SJSD Foundation (a 501 C 3 which has to publicly disclose their tax return, by law) who will then hire the consultant or donate the money to the SJSD, who will then hire a consultant. This seems to be an excellent option for how to structure the retention of a consultant, but there may be other options as well. Clearly, someone is putting a lot of thought into this issue, so like I keep pleading for, let's be patient and see how this unfolds - at least for a few days.

John H,
I would appreciate it if you would keep that info you got from H to yourself and not share it with anyone please.

mm - no worries at all!

mm - realized that may be a bit ambiguous. Your contact info was shared with me in confidence and will remain such until you give me permission to share it.

ya know i was a student of ms. smith....

i use to think highly of her. not so much now.....

when i was in hs - 1989-1993 - they operated on a $3mil reserve and did it quite well.....
when they needed it they asked for increases.... without all the threats - i can't believe the people of st. JOE fell for all the threats!

glad i took my kids out of the st JOE public schools!

sure agree with you graphicphotobug. just got the time to look at my tax bill due next month. $1,528 for the assessed value of $20,800. the sjsd portion is over 46% of the total and my understanding is that doesn't reflect the levy just passed.

graphic - the last levy passed with many realities, you word as threats, such as the govenor withholding funding and such, also three million in reserve is much to small and the schools were not operating fine.

directtalk - you do know that assesed value is not market value - also the tax rate for a school district in Nebraska would have been doubled what you paid. We pay one of the lowest levies in the state if not the nation. Glad you looked at your tax statement, tell me, do you know how much less it was from last year?

thank goodness it isn't! lived in a few places and the highest ratio seen was 37%. maybe the district needs to learn how it can do more with what it has and then the people in this city would be more willing to help.

as you know the district is at the lowest levels of the state. The state of Missouri dictates the school funding, not the district. Your fight is with the State of Missouri. Also you did not answer my question, how much did you save?

you claim others keep rambling on. the number is about $131 and would think you capable of figuring it out. that is still not the point. this district has had reasonable cash in recent years and look at the state of things. they know how to keep asking for more and more $$$$ but sure don't show anyone they know how to use it. like so many today, just keep throwing more and more tax money at things and ignore the real problems needing to be fixed.

didn't they save a bunch and kept it in the reserves so that when people like you want to save $131 over a period of one year so our kids don't get a proper education and our levy is at the lowest of the state they have enough money to operate? Yeah thought so, go back in your hole -

Apple/Sence
131 dollars to some maybe a bunch in this economy.That is also a point idf the 63 cent levy generates 6.5 million a year and we have 35.5 million in reserves they must have not spent that musch of the levy so why didn't they spend it during the last 5 years if it was not needed and sit there?
Yo uknow there is so many different ways to look at this and everybody is entitled to their own opinions.
And Apple telling people to go back in there hole is not engaging people in a constructive way and you know this.

same mouthy person as always. no wonder the district is in the mess it is with attitudes like yours. funny thing is how many actually bought into your nonsense and keep giving the district a pass. it should all become clearer when things continue to fall apart and again ask for yet more money.

the district will always need more money, why is that so hard to understand, what do you believe goes down for the district -

insurance
gas
heat
water
books
pencils
pens
paper
equipment
payroll
legal fees

oh and what will you do with that extra 131 dollars - hey that can buy you some more smokes, or your pick up some six packs, or an hour at the casino -

Agian I noticed like many - you never addressed what I posts, you only seem to want to attack me - sun will be out soon, better get back to that hole -

attacking you! you are in need of some serious help.

Wow sense I wonder are you as smug and morally superior in real life as you are in here?

I am a confident person, don't know where you read I think Im morally superior - how about addressing my post where I correclty point out the increases a school district is up against and why additional funding is always needed. Again directtalk how about some direct talk and address the posts.

"Yeah thought so, go back in your hole -" Smells of moral superiority to me.

good call flAmer.
sense, you want the posts addressed. lets try a district in shambles and having nearly $35 million dollars that were at its disposal. want to talk about administrator salaries that are over inflated using bogus reasoning. we won't get into other recent cronyism. how about various student test scores and why they are deficient in the areas they are. maybe it is caused by inferior support and cycling for things like text books. should we bring up what the superintendent has seen as priorities while all this taking place. these are a few for you to digest but in the mean time do not assume everyone is as willing as you to accept the ineptitude of this district and think just handing them more money is going to be a solution.

Apple/Sence,
Some of these same things you mentioned go up for our community's family's as well.Sure the community as a whole does not have employees and those benefits you spea of but they do have their own benefits to pay for which by the way last time I check our health insurance just went up,as well as our auto and home insurance did.Lights have went up,natural gas is expected to drop somewhat but look the ewater company wants a 28% increase.For somew family's this is going to be hard for them plain and simple .So apple please try and show some people a little understanding as their expenses are going up as well.
Apple some of this levy money needs to be addressing some of the current issues we have in the schools as well.We still have the over crowding issue the redistricting caused and this needs addressed as well they said they were going to look at services they had cut due to the levy noyt passing.Also might I remind you if the levy had passed in April the schools that were closed would not have closed till 2011 and Mrs Smith siad this much on the local news so now the levy has passed within the same years so take that money that was going to operate these 2 school for till 2011 and get some of these issues taken care of now and get services like the daycare opened back up for family's.All at this point that can be done to address the overcrowding is trailers at the schools with high class sizes but it need to be done and can be this current year.

so not wasting money and actully having it is a bad thing, maybe a lot of companies and people out of jobs should have had that thought process, student achievment, didn't one of our schools recieve a national honor? District pay is in line with other districts, however truth and logic is not what you want to discuss, thankfully, the election shown you as a minority and thankfully you care not work with the community so I will allow you to spew your district hate and blame the world for your problems here on these posts.

If telling you to back in your hole makes me moral superior, than so be it, I can live with that.

mm - schools are closed forever, get over it -

apple,
I know the schools are closed now we need to address the overcrowding that it caused.That is what I was telling you.
Please quit critizing people for their opinions and keep a open mind and see that everybody has a opinion and it may not fall into line with yours.

certain you think so and can. those believing they are never recognize their own ignorance and lack of civility.

Apple/Sence,
I just looked at the buchanan county web site and the majority of the vote for the levy was in the northeast side of town.Not the rest of the community.I would say this says that our community is divided on the issue and the TF which I am very skeptical of spent the majority of their time in this area of the community.I will give them the beneffit of the doubt but they really need to show me they are going to engage all areas and all walks of life for me to buy into what they are trying to do.But I will keep a open mind but the election results show how are community is divided.

So Im clear, anyone can come on here posts misinformation, be mean spirited about schools, make false statements but should never be challenged or told they are wrong because it is thier opinion, so when your kids at home say disrespectful things to you, or about their teachers, or make a racial remark, you think its okay because after all, they are only telling you thier opinion right,

or if your mm - all you have to say is, "with all due respect"

MM - Im sure they campained harder in the East to get the levy to pass, that just being smart - how about the south start getting engaged in the community, the no voters couldn't even get out of their goverment paid housing to vote no - how about start being productive rather than going to the library getting on the goverment paid computer and complain about taxes and the goverment they live off of. How about that for a change.

"the no voters couldn't even get out of their goverment paid housing to vote no - how about start being productive rather than going to the library getting on the goverment paid computer and complain about taxes and the goverment they live off of."

How about that example for moral superiority? BTW its government not "goverment". Normally I wouldn't care about spelling but in your case I will make an exception.

moral superiority would be the republican party, Fox News, Rush, Sam Adams Alliance, and the "American Majority" I just happen to be right, which I see you not bother to question. Thank you for your agreement.

OOOoooOOOoooohhhhhh so it was "Fox News, Rush, Sam Adams Alliance, and the American Majority" that made the assumption that if you voted no you were living in goverNment housing and were unable to afford a computer and therefore had to go use a free one at the library. AHhhhhh and here I thought it was just you being a "****"

I see you like to make assumptions, I did not say those groups had anything to do with the school election, I only pointed out what groups I define them to beleive they are moral superiority, nothing to do with the school levy, how did you put that together?

I do not assume every "no" voter lives in a goverment home, or goes to a goverment paid library, and posts on a goverment paid computer, just some of those how posts here - as others say here - it is my opinion.

For some freedom only means I should be allowed to say what I want, not others - typical -

apple/Sence
you know better then this.And if this group is going to campaign is this area more then the rest what makes us think that they are going to engage these other areas when it is time for the long range planning and picking people for the long range planning from these areas and from all walks of life?
Like I said I have a open mind and will give them the benefit of the doubt but the slip and I am on them and will be on them in a public way and expose them if all areas and all walks of life are not involved.Like someone else said on here and I think it was dillygent is take people from all walks of life to be sucessful.

i almost complimented apple on her new found control a while ago. it seemed that perhaps a leopard might, indeed, be able to change it's spots. obviously, even though this election is over and that the results were as apple wished them to be, she cannot resist the need to defame, insult, assume and rant.

seriously, apple, please give it a rest. we all get that you are a partisan democrat who has a bone to chew on this topic. isn't there something more productive you could be doing?

It seems the only call for calm, reason, and give it a rest comes from those that champion negative comments about the district. Sorry, it goes both ways. For communication, dialog and engangment those that voted no also need to show they are willing to do so and I believe many are, but why allow this crap to go on?

Is it really reasonable for someone to come on here and complain about $131 over a year period of time which is roughly rounding down cents $10.00 per month? If you can't afford $10.00 per month you obvisouly have greater concerns than the school levy and your probably recieving many benifits from the schools that $10.00 goes for.

We can't start engagement if the opening line is that the district is horrible and everyone associated with it is horrible.

Again, the cry was about the schools always wanting money, of course they do, as I pointed out their costs goes up just like everyone elses and they just can't increase the cost like your utilites do, they are dependent on tax payers and so they will always be asking for more, anyone who looks at the schools think they are wallowing in money have such a distorted view I don't know how they can be engaged.

I was always told a leapord could not change their spots no matter what.

A story of engagement -

A children story from China -

Once there was a frog and a scorpion sitting at the edget of a lake. The scorpion asked the frog if he could ride on his back so that he may reach the other end. The frog declined saying,"you will sting me." The scorpion replied, "I will not, for if I do I will die for I cannot swim as you do." The frog thought about it and then agreed. They were in the middle of the lake when the scorpion lifted his tail high in the air and then struck the back of the frog sending it deadly posion into the frog. The frog felt the sting and and the posion move through his body he started becoming stiff. "Why, why would you do this," said the frog as he began to sink. "Now we both will die in this lake." As the water began to cover the frog and the body of the scorpion, the scorpion replied, "because I am a scorpion, it's what I do, you should have known what I am and that I will never change." They both sank out of sight.

Someone needs to change their name to either no sense or nonsense. I'm not from southend although it does bother me how sense always puts down the southend,i have alot of friends who live there and they are hard working people.I would much rather live in the southend with honest,hard working,decent people than out east with a brain dead snob. I do take offense to your as you say ignorant statements no sense.

Im not sure where you read I said anything about people who live in the south end? I pushed back on someone who posted, have no idea where they live, again my posts was regarding what was posted nothing else. I did say it was smart to campain in the East to pass the levy which was smart because traditionaly the south votes against school levies, which is a statistical truth - so why are you going off on me about my attidude towards the south end?

Apple/Sence remember the joke you so called it about the Benton High school girl? Remember about the southend people at the bottom of the lake comment?Do not ever try to tell anyone you have never degraded or called people from this end of town names or degraded them.Also rem,ember you said in a post you were apple and we knew you were just by your post.Maybe they remember reading these comments of yours.

I was referring to these current posts, but if you want to bring up the past, I remember apple ribbing you and telling you jokes that he heard from from boardering states and inserted Benton just to get under your goat. Most people just laugh those out or throw another joke back at you. They were kind of funny.

heritage - interesting you bring up almost complimenting sense on new found control under a new pseudonym. I came close to doing the same thing after the election when the following revelation was made by her in the 5November NP article "Fewer voters turn out 2nd time"

sense November 5, 2009 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"apm and John are correct, I knew it during the campain, that is why I attacked the argument so much. I did this because I also know we needed the levy to pass. Where we find outself is where the world was after WWI. The war ended but did not address the problems in Europe, the problems led to WWII. We have the levy passed, however, proper funding, long term goals and getting the commmuinity involved still linger and if not addressed and sooner than better we very much will be heading to WWII...."

Found the admission striking more so because it acknowledged her argument was based on gaining support for the levy and not addressing the real issues plaguing the district.
Whether sense or apple, it is clear she is either unwilling or unable to accept that some view this subject as more than a financial matter, with it essential for the BOE to demonstrate it would move forward with acceptable solutions prior to, and so, appropriate funding could be established.
By now you would also think one would know how petty and immature attacking others for their position makes you look.

My admission was that I belevied we do need a long term plan and address the needs of the schools, however my believe is that we could not wait and withhold the money until that happened. I agreeed with the districts plan of getting the funding approved and then work for the long range plan. My disagreement with you was the timetable and the importance of the money. My fear was though your argument was logical and indeed well stated, many like those we read here on these postings who care not the complexities of the school budget or the levy and only act upon emotions and thier overall dislike of taxes would attached themselve to your argument for a no vote with no intentions of engagement, or wanting to work for a long term solution. They will always be willing to listen to the lies of Axuim and do what ever they can to defeat the school levy.

Engagement is a two way street, those that wish to sit in their house and posts no one cares about them now have the opportunity to act. So the choice is yours, no matter what part of town, or income you have, do you now act and become involved in your community and your life?

I will attack anyone no matter where their address is who posts thoughtless, selfish and one sided viewpoint. I would hope those wishing true engagement would champion that thought process so that good, productive communication can really come through.

What do you mean you remember apple saying this you should since you admitted you are apple.I did not take them as a joke and found them very appoling

sense - I can understand and appreciate your position. Unfortunate as I do think we want to see the same things happen in the district but our approaches differ too greatly. My views might have been more in line with yours had the BOE in fact shown progress in a community based long range plan. They did not do so, further losing any degree of credibility by deciding a sunset provision as sufficient alternative in resolving issues. In my opinion, at that moment it was clear the decisive changes needed for this district were not going to happen in a timely manner and would only materialize if facing the reality of hard alternatives.
We now can only wait and see how things unfold. Having observed similar situations over more years than I like to admit to, the state of affairs created will not evolve into the best and desired scenario; hope I am proven wrong.

I am keeping a skeptical eye on the district as well, I don't give them a free pass here and they have much work to do. In many ways I agree with mm and most of how they act and in need of good public realations. I fear the district is not strong enough to stand up to the anger shown on these boards and when faced with it they turn to only more friendly faces.

First step would be for Dr. Smith, the board and district admistration to have an open town hall meeting and allow the community to vent and get it off their chests. Just stand up there and take it. Let the community blow off some steam, then go from there.

As I beleive you agree, what is not important is how someone feels but how they got to the point they feel that way. The community also needs to understand and rid of their anger and frustrations and move foward as well.

Anything I can do to assit you in getting the district to move in a more positive direction I am 100% for.

mm - there are times to get mad about something and a time to laugh things off - I suggest you do the latter

Sense, Two things...A man told me that there was an issue discussed at the school board meeting that did not make it to the newspaper, but it is a rather crucial issue. The school district is anticipating state cuts in transportation. You know...those big yellow school "ducks" that patrol the streets twice a day.Put the fact that they could be faced with funding cuts to transportations with the fact that I believe they added 6 new buses...in time they may need that 35 million dollars. Secondly, rather than try to insult everybody on here who talks about saving a buck, why don't you redirect some of your energy toward the thing that might make people feel they could loosen up on their purse strings: salaries of the working man/woman.

Transportation issue has been well reported. State is cutting out the reimbursment for trasporting kids. Most likly the district will face even more state cuts, a reason they have always said they needed the reserve. I only insult those that feel the need to insult first.