we will never know if the sunset was the difference because there was no exit polling done.

sounds like the district will be coming back before the sunset, which was my greatest fear. if ocfd is giving credit to the sunset for the win, they have to recognize that the any attempt to "break" the implied promise of no new tax for five years is going to a really hard sell.

heritage - Exactly! this is the same situation the district put itself in with the original levy. The next 12 to 24 months will become critical in how the 6 million dollars of annual revenue is put to use. After that, and more importantly, is the question of how the district will justify their request for additional funding at what I predict will be the 2 year interval.
Patches on worn out inner-tubes do not last long and why the forethought of some like yourself, Mr. Courter, and insideout, was deserving of greater consideration.

The argument for proper funding is valid. However, if you have your first on the sceen of car crash victim, you stabalize the person so that more detailed care can be admidistrated later. This is what the levy was all about. I know the arguments that the district was not in that bad of shape and the money has no impact for a year. I believe the strategy was to get a small amount now, then ask for another small amount with community involvement. That seemed a better shot than waiting to ask for a much larger amount at once. I myself don't like idea, however I understand the reality of what can get passed in this community.

sense - Reasonable to conclude such an approach but considering all aspects of what the district faces the short term stabilization may come with the longer term price of not being able to correct the core problems and perpetuating what has allowed various situations to exist for too long a time.
On the one hand it is great that community saw fit to provide the district necessary funding to sustain itself. On the other hand, should this begin nothing more than another 5 year cycle of that previously seen, no one should take comfort in what has and will be taking place.

No one ever said this levy passage was more than just a bandaid....or, perhaps more accurately....a tourniquet. I agree with sense's analogy...let's do what we can to stabilize the "victim" for now, and work on permanent healing down the road.
To further the analogy, there are times, in an accident, where loss of limbs, and certainly scars, are the inevitable result, necessary to bring complete healing. That may also be the case here. I do think now that the people have spoken, we should also turn our sights to the state. We were "sold a bill of goods" back when the state was trying to introduce riverboat gambling to us. Many have asked about where that money is going. I'd also point out that the promises the state made at that time have all been broken. While gambling dollars may, in fact, be put into the state education programs, the state has also been removing it's own funding, which was NOT part of the deal...or at least not as it was presented. The double talk from our politicians is becoming intolerable, and "We The People" need to stand up and start demanding honesty and integrity from those who have sworn to represent us.

pops - You and I seem to agree over issues about 50% of the time so imagine we are not that far apart on many things.
The problem I have with the "accident victim" analogy is simply that circumstances were not created by accident. Choices were made, and yes, while it is possible to effect change by things like replacing board members, historically too much time will lapse before the damage can be repaired.
You are correct, the people have spoken but should this translate into nothing more than the people moving on because the district has their money, the community will not see the progressive changes so many claim to want.

pops, you are mistaken. the campaign Never made it clear that the five year sunset would be completely inadequate and that there would be, literally the day after the promise of a five year sunset, a call for more money. this can be a serious liability to moving forward.

i agree with apm, and his 10:06 comment is bang on.

I don't recall the district promising "no new taxes for five years". Is this documented somewhere?

Orliandor, no it is not documented, but in the campaign material that was sent out and what was on the commercials never indicated that the 63 cents wouldn't be enough to get them through five years. Most voters probably assumed it was enough because if it wasn't, it would be stupid to ask for it. It certainly was not advertised that 63 cents wasn't enough to get through 5 years or that it was just a bandaid.

I am guessing that probably for the most part, people are generally uninformed about the district finances.

The tending to the victim later down the road will not work because the patients will be dead further down the road meaning the SJSD.
Orliandor, Mr Smith said that in 4 years the reserve would be gone and that is also with using the new levy so for sure in 4 years they will be back asking for more they will have no choice the reserve and the current levy that just passed will be gone.

orliander, read for comprehension, please. i did not say that the district said no new taxes.

apm and John are correct, I knew it during the campain, that is why I attacked the argument so much. I did this because I also know we needed the levy to pass. Where we find outself is where the world was after WWI. The war ended but did not address the problems in Europe, the problems led to WWII. We have the levy passed, however, proper funding, long term goals and getting the commmuinity involved still linger and if not addressed and sooner than better we very much will be heading to WWII.

The levy passing bought us time, but that ticking you hear is the countdown already begun. We must now move past polotical postering and get this done right.

pops, i heard you when you mentioned the gambling money. where is all that was promised? the state decides where the school money goes and very well use it for other than schools. why after getting the gambling legal in Missouri didn't they keep their promise to support the schools? i assume they use very little for schools. they line their pockets for sure. or put that money into projects they deem more necessary. i agree they should do the right thing and use it for nothing but school support. how i wonder can we get this done. i think we need to make it illegal to gamble in Missouri if they in fact are not going to use that money for schools.

donaldo, what do you think was promised? The district received about 4.1 million in 07-08 from the gambling money according to their budget posted on the district's website. Just how much do you think there is? You have to remember that the money from our local casino goes to the state and is put into a fund with all the other casinos and is then split among all districts in the state even those without a casino in their backyard. Go to the Missouri Gaming Commission website and they have details of the money collected and distributed to education. Education also includes the colleges and other institutions.

This is the proposal presented to the Board of Education prior to the election. It defines the(TF/OCOFOD) position on the sunset and the plan to examine it after the November election. It should come as no surprise that we're now talking about it and will continue the discussion in the long–range planning effort. I do hope you will bring your energy and ideas to the long–range planning table. We to move forward together to develop a future plan for public education in St. Joseph.

Posted on June 23, 2009 at 4:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Our vision is for the administration, the board and the task force to work together to develop and implement a community–engineered, long–range plan.

Collectively, we’ll listen to what the community wants of its public education and then, as a united front, work to deliver a plan that will fully fund education into the distant future and develop a timeline for building new schools. This is the long–range goal.

In the short–term, the school district needs to keep the lights on, the teachers and staff paid and the buildings running. Therefore, we are prepared to run and fund a campaign to put a .63 cent operating levy, with a five–year sunset, on the November 2009 ballot.

It is important for the community to understand, no one on our task force believes funding public education in five–year increments is an effective method, nor do we believe .63 cents is enough to fully fund public education.

However, we must listen to what voters said in the April 2009 election and believe the .63 cents with a sunset clause is necessary to see the operating levy pass.

With that said, our campaign message will be clear to voters: “This .63 operating levy with a sunset is not the END to this discussion. It is instead, the BEGINNING.” ...

One the new schools issue we need to replace some schools but we do not need to biuld these supersized schools where 2 school would merge together.
We need to stay with our neighborhood school concept.One might also look at the price tag assosiated with refurbishing the ones we got from the ground up and making them handicap accessiable vers biulding new ones.I bet you will find the price tag assosiated with refurbishing the ones we got is cheaper then biulding.
We need to addresss HYDE,HUMBOLT,HALL,NEELY,and the reason I said Neely is during this period of refurbishing the schools would have to be closed and those children would have to have a school to go to during the construction.
If it is true the gentlemen that re did the mead biulding he said he could refurbish our school for around 4 million this is a far cry from the price to biuld a new one and this is something the public probably would by into because it saves money and it also keeps their neighborhood school.These are the types of this the long range planning is going to have to llokat and listen to what the community wants.Remember the children and the parents will be here longer then the board of education and will be here when the current administration moves on as well.This is our community and our schools not theirs and they need to listen to us.I really only see a need for one school to be biult and that is to the NE and refurbish the other ones and leave our neighborhood schools for our children and community.But again I cannot stress enough that these ideas are going to have to be listened to and the financial numbers doing the above and keeping our old neighborhood school vers biulding new.All of the problems these schools have can be addressed and corrected.What has been happening with Neely has it been sold or is it just sitting there deterorating more?
Is this something the TF is open to Mrs Waggner and Mr Kirby?
Sence you arecorrect in your post at 2:08 the clock is moving and time is ticking.

Tama, let's be fair. Those of us who post here regularly and/or attend school board meetings know that was your argument. The problem is that the larger majority of the population do not do those things. All they know is what they saw on the ads and the mailers which was that 63 cents would not increase their taxes and the sunset clause would hold the schools accountable.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that they didn't say that even with the levy, our district would still be financially distressed before the levy expires.

I believe that this will create problems down the road when you are trying to pass another levy without a sunset clause before the five years are up.

I am thinking that CAFT will use that in their mailers next time. The TF needs to be prepared to combat that.

yougottabekiddingme
you are correct only time will tell how that turns out but they will be back to remind them.

The talk here seems to be that the 63 cent levy is the only tax we pay; in fact it is not. When I moved to St. Joseph from from Kansas, my property taxes on my home & motorhome quadrupled to $2,500.00, of which $1700 was for schools (2008 taxes, paid in 2009). Kansas does not have gambling or lotteries. Of course the politicians switched money formerly spent on schools to the general fund, that's what they do!
That's the reason we need term limits! The legislatures of states & congress have generally passed term limits for governors & presidents, but not for themselves! That's why they don't fear voter opinion! But then again, isn't it our local responsibility to educate our children; state and federal regulations have a terrible track record in improving reading & writing ability in the first 8 grades! This takes parental involvement to be successful.

BTW isn't "implied promise" sort of an oxymoron?

Frankly, I don't know why anyone would want to serve on the board. I think the emphasis on school buildings, for the future, is going to be to build large, over-sized buildings, regardless of what the public wants. I was once told that its large size was one of the reasons Humboldt was allowed to stay open. As far as the progress of the school district, all they really succeeded in doing, was to keep what they had, as of the day before the April election--nothing more. Nothing less. Back to the large buildings...For every two that they close, in order to make one big school, they will draw flack from any area that is excluded. There are areas of town, that for many years after they lost their local school, are still upset with past administrations, for closing them. I must admit, I do have a question for Tama Wagner. Is this meeting you are going to have with the district, to come up with a long-range plan, going to include academics, new buildings, or a public relations plan? I can't see it being academics because that is what the school officials are trained and paid for. If it's the new buildings, I think you better have a city planner on board to tell you where the growth actually is. Also, if it is in the buildings....good luck. You'll need it.

A good way to get this long range planning off the ground and involve everybody is to get a list of the names of parents of the children from the school district offices or have them do it and send letters to us for we know when these meetings are happening for people can be involved.For others in the community we have several news outlets for them to notify people.
Mr Waggner you have been so kind to answer questions on here to this point would you please give me some answers to the questions I have above about the schools.Or are we goingto focus on Mrs Smith flawed vision for the schools and try to push it off on the public?

longarm45,

What's these:

http://www.kslottery.com/

http://www.worldcasinodirectory.com/kansas

Tama - You have to admit that yougotta is dead on in her analysis of voter expectations in her November 5, 2009 at 4:24 p.m. post.

I was stunned when I saw the accountability line used in the direct mail pieces, given the unanimous vote by the Task Force that I believe was accurately reflected in the statement "It is important for the community to understand, no one on our task force believes funding public education in five–year increments is an effective method."

So, which way is it? Does the Task Force believe the sunset is a good/healthy way to achieve accountability, as the direct mail piece said, or that is an not a effective method?

Looks like you have spin doctered your way right into the corner!

John,
It has been a couple of days now since the levy passed and I think they need to be coming to the public and telling us where they are at with the long term planning and what the plan to move forward achieving this and how it is going to work.Time is ticking and it is never to soon to get this process started.
You know I am a skeptic of this but I am willing to work for the betterment of the sschool but they more they do not come open to the public the more skeptic I get.I was gald to get some answers from Mrs Waggner but I have also asked more since and have got no repy,s and I now wonder if she was told to be quite and not answer anymore questions from anybody.I want these answers to be public knowledge and on here for people of the community to see.

oh for petes sake, the eletion was only two days ago, are we going to have to read mm posts non-stop for five years?

Apple do not start on me I am not here trying to stir thing as you seem to be I just want thing to move and people to come together.

you know I will be watching very closely for the next 5 years,but will be watching very closely in the next few months to see how the direction of the long range planning is going.

so how many posts are we going to have to read from you, come on, lets allow everyone a break for at least a week, just give it rest for awhile -

When it comes to the schools and the mess they are in there is not time to rest.Remember that Unicom Arc siad this process will take 14 months.It is time to move forward with them or with the board and the administration and the TF and ACE people and the community's citizens for our schools and our children.The clock it ticking.It in noway take 2 days to answer some of the questions that have been presented to the TF it is all about being open and honest to the community at this point.Like dillygent said I am not going anywhere I will hold people accountable.

I propose we let everyone catch their breath. Remember, they have spouses, children and jobs too.

Regardless of your position on what is now behind us, let's acknowledge that many people work countless hours for nothing more than a thank you, and are preparing to work countless more hours for the same. They stepped up and fulfilled their civic duty, and then some.

I am confident everyone wants to capitalize on the momentum gained by the levy passage, but they are human, after all. I bet there is some kind of activity in the next two weeks on the community engagement effort.

how about you go to a meeting when they happen and spend your time more in a more valable way. If the election taught you anything, your assumption of the pulse of the community is not as accurate as you beleived it to be. You need to engage others than your circle.

Everyone: There is a school board meeting next Monday. People who are truly concerned need to be there now that the levy has passed even more than before. Sign up to speak. 15-30 minutes of 3-5 minute statements about how to go forward will let the board know that business will never be usual again. If you will, I will.

longarm: Missouri has term limits for legislators. All of our local legislators term out next year. Term limits have not worked well for funding schools. After 10 years of Democratic majorities and eight years of a Democratic governor that massively increased school funding, the "small government" conservative Republicans took control of both houses and eventually the Missouri state house.

1st in the summer of 2001, they refunded the budget surplus @ $250 per family. Woohoo! Then 9/11 happened and we had a recession and state government income dropped.

Funding was inadequate by over $1 billion. Our local senator, now President Protem of the state senate, created a new school funding scenario (foundation formula) according to Republican principles.

Missouri schools are still underfunded.
The new formula will never produce adequate funding.
Due to the current recession there is a billion dollar hole in the state budget created when the Republicans (in denial) projected a 1% growth in state economy rather than the 10% decline we are experiencing.

So what do St. Joseph schools need. Consistent increased funding is part of future needs.

Will the local community have to do all the funding through higher and higher levees? Not necessarily.
If voters and the big funders of campaigns and school levy elections make sure that every person elected to the state legislature believes that school funding is the most important state priority and that it should be increased from current 23% of the budget to 33% were it should be.

They also need to create good-paying jobs.

If the state steps up to its constitutional responsibility to adequately fund education, then the local school system might not be in financial difficulty in five years.

However, it is probable that Missourians will have to elect a majority of Democrats and moderate pro-public-school Republicans to make those changes.

Forget the gambling funds; funds for schools was a campaign ploy to get gambling in Missouri.

No apple sence the community is still upset and a lot chose not to vote because of one reason or another.Think about it if the 2000 that did not vote that voted in April you may be on the other side as well.
As far as attending meetings. Where?When?

the election was what it was and it's over, it has only been a couple of days and your already on her trying stilll spewing negativity and making claims against them. Give it a rest, Im tired of it, the community is tired of it - stop already, give them time and by time I mean two to three months not days -

NO 2 or 3 months is way to long to waiting to get this started.
It may be ok in your eyes but not mine.Simple questions like are they going to work with the people from ACE if they want is a simple question to answer.
Questions like are they planning on truely engaging all people from all areas and all walks of life can be answered.
You are entitled to your opinions as well as I am.Like dillygent had said I am not going away and I will hold The TF accountable for their actions or lack of.As well as the SJSB.If it involves my children and their education I want to be informed and kept up to date as well as questions answered for all to see.This is called being tranparent with the community apple.

mm...i agree with sense, give the negativity a rest for a while. we know you are holding them accountable as you have stated nonstop for the past few months. i'm not saying you shouldn't get involved and let your voice be heard, but look for some positives and not the same negative attitude, that doesn't accomplish anything.

Posiives great I think I have said some I want to get involved and I have said I am willing t opgive them the benefit of the doubt till they prove me otherwise.I think that is pretty positive.But maybe you all just as usual do not want anybody stiring the pot and like the atatus quo.I do not.

stir away, i think everyone should stir, but with an open mind and forward looking thoughts.

For those of you interested in the LRP/community engagement, please check out the open letter from Kevin Kirby just posted on http://www.stjoekids.com. He needs our help.