If this levy was really only $0.63 on the $100 assessed that would be fine but the ballot states, If the proposed levy passes the estimated value would be $3.73 on the $100 of assessed valuation. So, I'm confused is it 63 cents or is it $3.73? I can't afford an increase like this and I am looking forward to a decrease so I can have money for xmas. And with gas going up already any extra in my pocket helps and any out hurts a ton. I'm voting no! Spend what you have first and then ask. I didn't have $100,000 in savings to turn around and ask the bank for a loan for my house. Think about it.

“We have room in the schools for the children we have, and I think they’re pretty well settled in with their teachers,” Ms. Pullen said. “I think things are going pretty smoothly.”

But, just a few months ago, the classes were overcrowded and we needed two new schools. So which is it? Do we, or do we not, have enough room for our children with the current schools that we have? Bearie04, you too bring up a valid point! How much of an increase will we see on our property taxes?

Come on SJSD, be straightforward and honest if you want this levy passed. Don't beat around the bush. If you cut things when the levy failed, restore those same things if it passes.

the amount you see is the total levy amount of the levy of .63 passes. If the levy does not pass your levy would be where it stands today - $3.10 per $100 assesd. The .63 will not affect you this year, in fact you will see the decrease in your property tax this year since the levy was defeated in the April election.

Once again more misinformation from a group which demands trasparency for their elected officials. For a group which demands engagement and transparency why must they depend on lies and misinformaation.

The group in funding "Citizens Against Forever Tax" is out of Chicago, they are called the "Sam Adams Alliance" and thir goal is to remove public education, and make all schools private. Thier goal is to recruit local people to carry their philosopy into local school boards and city elections. These people do not care what the issues are or what the need is, they will challenge every eleciton, they have with a transportation tax in Kansas City, a parks are rec tax in Platte City and many more across the country. They do not disclose who they are or where their money comes from which is strange from a group which demands transparency. They prey on your anger and fear, they care nothing for you, your children or your community. They will lie, misinform and do what ever they can to turn us upon ourselves.

This article seems a bit like spin to me. Ms. Pullen is speaking about reviewing cuts that she admits would be a Board decision. Why wasn't a member of the board or administration asked this question? In the next paragraph she avoids the question of additional cuts. How can 63 cents be enough to restore some services MAYBE but not enough to keep from having to make additional cuts.

Also, the budget projections with the five year sunset clause assume that the same cuts continue and we are still out of money in 5 years. There is no room to restore anything with only 63 cents.

Here is the bottom line: If the levy does not pass, the projections show that the district can keep spending as it has been spending for another 2-3 years. 63 cents gets them an extra year, that's it. There won't be money to restore anything - not unless they cut something to restore something. That sounds kind of stupid to me unless they were talking about cutting administrator salaries but you and I know that will never happen.

The NP should interview Beau Musser if they want an objective analysis of the finances.

I have to strongly disagree with Mrs Pullen on the overcrowding iassue and would love for her to step foot into our school and then explain to me why we have 3 grade levels for each class and they are to the number allowed per class per which grade t is.Our school lost the Art Room,Music Room ect from their redistricting.From 350 or so students to almost 500.I think this is overcrowded and you seem ot fail to see this.Settle I also have to disagree there is still some confusion in our school.Teachers are stressed more this year then last and it is easily seen everyday.
So what they need to address is the overcrowding and really could stand to open one of these schools back up to take some of these students and there are other schools in the same position.I want our class sizes back to what they were last year and I am sure our teachers would as well.
So do not come to us and tell us some services will be restored and those will be in the other grades that were not affected and the ones who were affected are still going to be suffering because of your BAD DECISIONS.

You know they talk about big schools to handle Hall and Neely which would be over 600 students well they already have done that to one school with ours around 500 this is around 150 plus more students.The children are not getting as good of education as they did last year and will not till the class sizes come back down.Like they were suppose to with the levy that passed in 2004.

Sence it does not take a outside group for us to turn on each other in St Joseph we have been that way for over 30 plus years.

Suggestions for cuts,they need to cut downtown fat.Cut any and all unwise spending like the new funiture Mrs Flowers just had to have that was not bought out of town and not locally.When I am sure with the school closings she could have found some office furniture somewhere that was already paid for.

Like the wasted money on food for the admin if indeed it was 100,000 someone needs to explain this crap as well.

Cut out all of the assistants for assistants in the administration that would be savings in the downtown offices.

If the children are going to suffer for their mis- management then they need to work a little hard and suffer as well.Nice they make the children suffer but they live high on the hog.

NO in November still sound as the way I will vote to hold these people accountable and explain and not run and hide from the issues they have caused.And for the reason this is the wrong levy and does not address the long term finacial needs of the schools.We were a YES/YES vote the last time and now will vote NO.I wonder how many others will vote NO that voted YES/YES the last time in April?I bet it is a higher number of people then known.

On Tuesday night Deanna Brink w/KQ interviewed a student supporting the levy. She asked him why he was supporting the levy when it didn't effect him. It is this kind of attitude that makes St. Joseph the "behind the times" community it is and will never grow. The tax levy effects everyone who lives and works in St. Joseph. The heart of any community is the school system. With a "poor" one or a state run school system, the community cannot attract new businesses. We all suffer with that one. Also, if the District lays off an large number of people, those people have no money to buy things....again the city suffers. Many of those people will leave the community. If Deanna Brink doesn't want to support the Community of St. Joseph, then perhaps she needs to leave. Because, in order to support a healthy and prosperous community, we have to support the School District. It is as they say "the cycle of life". Everything supports and effects the other! And by the way..I do not have any children in attending any of the schools...I support the Levy, because I support the community.

That new computer is working.

They cannot lay off that many more people in any position they have to many students in the schools we have to cut the staffs any further and if they did it would be retaliation again for the community telling them no.Also there has been several hundred people right here in our community laid off nobody seems to show these folks and consideration for what they are going through.

Argue correctly or we do not need it at all. This is not what the board had stated was needed. We do not have the confidence to argue for future state and stand by what it is truly needed. Sunset does not ge us theere, and is the core reason the school system has not progressed. It is now in November. I will support future state investment, not a solution hat has proven to be ineffective over decades. In Apr the sunset was literally "trashed" by the district and many businesses, the Chamber, the NP, etc as not being correct path. Sunset does not fix the problems.

yougotta - allow me to ask you directly, would you deny any knowledge, association, connections to the Sam Adams Alliance or the American Majority group?

casey, i just want to point out that deanne brink was asking a simple question. she wasn't expressing an opinion or trying to influence the answer. brink's responsibility is to the public. i actually find that kq2 has been very even handed in its coverage.

i have been interviewed for kq2, and was always terrified that the editing process might choose the worst moment i had. i will say from personal experience with kq2 that they are very professional and even when they had an opportunity to use a fumbled phrase, or a place where i lost my train of thought, they never took advantage of my nervousness. those students all did very nicely and seemed comfortable and confident.

brink is an asset to the community, and is even handed, professional and gracious.

Janet Pullen gets us thinking about the future. What will be the spirit of the community after the election? Will we have another year of bitterness? Will the people who feel they have been hurt by the outcome strike back? Is the City Manager the next target? Or will it be your wife, husband, boyfriend or boss? Seems to me that this community has folks that have to have their point of view dominate or else. How can we be a community that works for the common good?

This article is all over the place. My guess is(I hope) that Pullen gave much more detailed answers than this and the ink slinger had to condense it to fit space. "If" the News Press is truly "for" passage, they did not do the School District any favors with this article.

Going from unexplained "curriculum cycles" to 20 year old textbooks without any detail on what this means does not translate to the below average "Joe" who's heck-bent on voting no since gas just went up a dime.

Slinging these numbers around also is detrimental for that very same reason.

I would hope the School District would insist on seeing the finished project next time so they can "fix" things.

For those that say that school district personnel are not politicians, I have to disagree. They're just not the best at it. Perhaps there's a conference at Tan Tara for learning that. I guess she did lay some "pre-blame" on the board which is a good political move. If you've ever witnessed a school board meeting you would get the impression that 99% of decisions are made by the distict and the board is "persuaded" to go along...to not be a dissenter, etc. Now the school district can blame the board who can then blame the task force who will then blame anti tax people in Chicago. At least they're bringing in big guns this time.....not the river rats from the last election.

sense - never heard of the two groups until you started posting yesterday, but you have piqued my curiousity and I am going to do a little research on them.

ForestG, I totally agree with your politician comment relating to the district personnel. I am about to sound territorial, but I am starting to get annoyed by people who do not live here, helping interpret, shape and create our disagreements. That includes Shields, unless he moved here recently, Brink, who I believe is from KC and the group from Chicago. I am sure that the city of Chicago wants to hear from concerned citizens in St. Joseph, Mo. any recommendations we have on fixing the city of Chicago. Whatever you think of Weston's articles, and I like them, he is OURS. He has one of our own legitimate hometown viewpoints. I was offended by the reference to the school board as clowns. I may look at them as ineffective (Snethen excluded), but I do not look at them as clowns. If they are clowns, who elected them?

Not that I like to defend Shields but where does Shield's live? His kids go to school here. I saw them at P/T conferences last week at CHS.

It is all in how you sell your position; or in this case spin.

NP 28Oct - "Ms. Pullen said it was too early to tell what additional cuts would be made if the levy did not pass this time."

Look at the budget numbers and surplus. Then ask yourself what was happening with that funding when it existed. If you have been satisfied with the direction and accomplishments of the district over the last 5 years by all means support the levy. If you believe that the district needs to change its focus and establish a precise plan directed at improving education for the city, approving this levy will not provide the desired results. Rather it will translate into more of the same failing policies that have put the district in the position it now faces.

Failing position apmmastrangelo? During the last five years the admidistration put the district in postion to address shifting population, build two new schools and grow. It was able to build up the reserves to a healthy (auditor words) level. Seems to me they did pretty good.

Casey Jones obviously has no concept of a reporter's job. Deanna Brink, as a reporter should, asked a very sincere, open-ended question, and afforded the student an opportunity to explain. In no way did she take a position for or against the levy.

I continue to be inpressed with the level-headed thoughts posted by Heritage. We know her positions and she makes them clear without personal attacks on others who may be posting.

Regardless of where one stands on this issue, I found the recent mailing for opponents insulting. It is self-defeating to label the school board members "clowns." They may not offer much in the way of independent thinking, but they are decent, honest men and women elected by the voters in this school district. We should appreciate their willingness to serve.

Apmastrangelo,
I have to agree with you and I believe they need to change it focus for the direction of our school and listen to the public a lot more.

ForestG, just because the article in the NP does not explain something does not mean that the interviewee did not explain it to the reporter. It merely means it did not make the article and should bear no relationship to how you judge the district. They have no control over what appears in the article and should not take the blame. If you talk to anyone who has been regularly quoted in the media all will tell you that they have been misquoted or that all context was omitted.

I don't know what Janet Pullen is trying to pull.
The district has had a five-year cycle for the replacement of textbooks going back at least twenty years. I know many teachers that have served on the selection committees. Almost every year some textbooks are replaced and the board votes on the replacements between January and May. The state has a special textbook fund and pays part of the cost.

The year before the 2004 levy was passed, when salaries were frozen, the district either cut back or stopped purchasing textbooks.

Of course, Janet hasn't been there for more than 4 or 5 years. Maybe she just doesn't know. I certainly hope so.
I hope she wasn't deliberately misleading.

sense - Your argument might be valid had the district in fact won community support for their "vision" and further would not have some of the mixed reviews associated to educational excellence.
Simply accumulating a surplus of dollars does not automatically equate into the district having made good choices. You neglect to address the fact that a significant portion of the population do not agree with the policy decisions being made by the BOE and how those shortcomings have created a backlash impacting approval for future funding.
As previously indicated; if you find the performance of the district satisfactory by all means vote for approving the levy. Just be sure to check back on were the district is in 2 to 4 years and advise on what has "not" taken place to improve the educational process and gamut of other issues.

apm, excellent post. This levy proposal gets us nowhere. This group pretends to care about our community and our kids, however, they are selling the kids out.

I can't explain how heart broken I was last April to learn that the levy did not pass. The bond we knew would be a tough one. We were not quite prepared for the extremes that would take place.

I was directly effected by that decision. I am a teacher, and like many teachers in the district we feel unsupported by our community. As people get older often their cost of living increases with the addition of family members. Many of us are furthering our educations and getting no compensation for it but going into debt further. I really hope it doesn't come down to employment somewhere else. I love this town, the school I am placed, and my students. It is like a home.

The tax in our district is below the state minimum. I am terrified at what may happen if it doesn't pass again. People talk about the economy, but how is having a school district in need going to help? Businesses are going to choose not to come here because of the school district and its floundering from lack of funds. I really feel like it is going to hurt us in the long run. We have to make sacrifice, all of us.

We need you to support us, why are we letting people with an alternate agenda manipulate our thoughts? The school board is trying. I am amazed at how many people will hide behind a fake name and judge but won't work to improve it. The information is out there. If you think the school board is so awful why don't you run? I think change is always good, new idea might just be what we need.

How long does it have to be before the people of St. Joe realize that they are not hurting the school board or the people high in their offices? They are hurting the children, their education, and the teachers.

As for the clown mailer....how immature? What is that teaching anyone? I was amazed when I saw that in my mailbox. Could someone explain why that was a good idea? Playing dirty like that is just disgusting.

If the numbers are what scares you, don't listen to the oppositions digits. They are skewed and filled with misinformation. Do the math yourself or have someone who is good with calculations do it. Compare it to what you have paid in the past. If you have questions, ask them. Be informed, be smart, and be mature adults. This is not just about a few dollars, it is about education. Compare St. Joe to surrounding district and the taxes they pay, look at the test scores. St. Joe has a great reputation with good test scores. Yes there are ups and downs but that happens.

Oh and don't worry I am not on school time :) I am actually sitting in a doctors office. You know the wait can be a long time.

If you have questions ask, I am not attacking anyone. I thought that the removal of the sunset clause would gain more support and the removal of the bond. I am starting to feel like some just want a excuse to save some money. Education is important and it can help us get out of the rut.

Someone please explain, with kindness, what you can expect from the failure of the levy? What are you hoping will happen? What realistically? I know there will be no compromise that everyone will agree with, but what can come close.

I want to feel hope for our school and our community but I am currently at a loss.

Schoolside. We want better for our children than what the current levy proposal will bring, which is financial ruin within 5 years. We want permanent funding for our schools. I was taught to fight for what you believe in. The 63 cent levy with the sunset clause HURTS our schools and our community.

I am having a hard time understanding what the district expects if they are successful in getting this passed. Are they going to go to the voters in a couple of years and argue with ANY credibility that our kids deserve permanent funding?

How are they going to explain that they asked for 63 cents for five years even when they knew it was NOT ENOUGH?

Why aren't they willing to fight for what they know is right? Why won't they fight for a better future for our kids?

Please understand that there are many, many of us out here who are against the levy, but it has nothing to do with not wanting to pay taxes, being against the schools, the teachers or the kids. It is about wanting better for our children. We think our kids deserve better - not more of the same. We think that our hardworking teachers, like you, deserve to be paid good salaries so we can recruit and retain the best of the best.

We are demanding more. Our kids deserve more. YOU deserve more.

This levy proposal is a cop out.

If we were two years down the road and hadn't managed to build a consensus and secure the appropriate, permanent funding for our schools, then I could vote for a "band-aid". I can't do it now, not when it is not absolutely necessary, not when we have plenty of time to work towards a solution.

The wheels are already in motion, the long range planning process is taking shape. There are already various groups in the community who are on the same page when it comes to this. Voting yes next week means that you will have won the battle only to loose the war.

The current levy proposal is counterproductive to what we all can agree our community needs.

Doing what is right for the kids means that sometimes we have to make hard decisions and fight for what you believe in.

That is why I will vote NO in November.

mm1967

I will be voting NO this November as well, and I was a YES/YES voter in April. My two children were some of the ones affected by the closing of Neely, and now have to be bussed to Hyde. I had to change my work schedule so that I can be there when the kids got off of the bus, instead of them just being able to walk a block from Neely to their day care. I have to leave work early on all the days that the kids get out of school early and drive them to day care, where they would have just been able to walk to before. It's such an inconvenience, and an unnecessary one at that.

Our whole family has been turned upside down by the decisions of this "administration". And until this "administration" is turned upside down, I won't be satisfied.

Allow me to ask those who feel we should not pass this levy for they feel it is not enough. Let us use the household budget theory.

You have $10,000 in your savings account. You had a job that paid $50,000 a year. You lost your job last April and now have been unemployed for the past six months. You have made adjustments to your budget. You are finally offered a job for around $35,000. With the cuts you have made and the money you have saved do you take this job to be able to pay your bills and not have to worry every night what may happen? Do you take this job and go back to school so that you can learn a new trade for a better job? Do you take this job while you keep planning and looking for a better opportunity down the road?

or

Do you not take the job, keep taking more out of your savings because you feel it is not enough to live the way you have been and you want to wait for a better position and salary. Do you tell your children that they are worth more and that is why you may have to sell your house if a new job does not come.

I agree, a better plan needs to be accomplished, but as long as we have people in Chicago sending out fliers calling our elected school board members clowns. As long as this community fights amoung itself, as long as we seem to take forever to move an inch,

The best course is to return the funding lost and then move ahead. Again, the above example, ask yourself honestly, what would you do, I think you have your answer on November 2nd.

I do believe there is a more sinister plan of defeating the levy in November. Notice yougotta last post ------

wheels are already in motion, the long range planning process is taking shape. There are already various groups in the community who are on the same page when it comes to this. - from yougotta posts -

Again I remind everyone the "Sam Adams Alliance" is behind funding the campain sending those fliers to you door. They are the ones who beleive schools should be private. They are the ones who held training in Kansas City. They are the ones who wish thier people to get elected on school boards.

So why have the levy defeated? That is easy to see, then they have leaverage over the community, it becomes a hostege situation, you want funding, vote our people on the school board in April, or abide to our agenda. Our agenda is to destroy puplic schools.

Question is to the community, why allow those from Chicago make our children into political footalls. If we don't stand up for our own, who will?

Kansas City defeated them, Platte City defeated them, do we not care for our communty, our children more than these communinities. Whatever are disagreements, let us in our own community solve them and not let those with agenda divide us.

Let us restore the funding and then come together as St. Joseph and move in a positive direction -

So.......If you don't want the sunset clause what was the issue last April? If that would of passed and the bond had not, there would of been no pay freezes and consolidation of schools would of happened at a slower rate. I understand without permanent funding we are in danger, but at least the levy now will give us a few years to build support.

Schoolside,
I hope you get some of the ideas why some of us will be votin no.It is not because we do not want funding for our schools for our children,teachers and schools.
This slevy is a flawed levy and will still will put the district in a distressed state before it will expire in 5 years and the didtrict will have to come back to the voters before it expired and ask for more and I think you know how that out come would be.So you have Yes/Yes voters which will become NO voters and No voters which will become Yes voters because of the sunst and each persons personal belief.
We believe you as teachers do a great job and are really sorry you all are caught in the middle of this but your employer has control over some of these issues and have chose to hide from the community and not engage us and try to solve some of these issues.

You also have the issue of school closures and redistricting and overcrowding issues and undue harships on family this has caused like wedge47 above has mentioned and this issue with the administration hads fell upon deaf ears and they will not address it or even listen to you about it.

And yes the economy plays a hugh roll in this at this time the economy in our community is good at all.

We will vote NO on november 3rd because of wanting better for our schools,children,teacher,and school staffs.
There's no reason the out a banaid on this issue when the wound is hugh and the bandaid will not even cover it up.

Schoolside
some people wanted the sunset and some did not .So yes votes in April become No votes in Novemeber.
And No votes in April that wanted the sunset will be yes votes in Novemeber.

Now all of the other issues the board and admin have caused in their actions toward the community since the levy failed in April will also bring out the NO voters in the Midtwon area because of Neely closing and the No voters will be out strong as well in the Webster area.

Also all of the familys's that were redistricted in May and it has caused hardships on their family's like wedge 47 mentioned above will be No voters.

Overcrowding in our schools like ones that went from around 360 to almost 500 and no communication from the district one what they are going to do to bring the class sizes back down to where they were last year will be No voters.

These are just some of the issues caused and have not been addressed by the admin or board and they are not willing to listen to people on these issues it was shoved down our throats and we were told this is the way it is and deal with it .So people even though it may not be right will deal with it by voting no for anything for the current board or admin.

mm - I beleive your position on the school matter has been well documented by yourself. However if I may look at your last post to use as an example of the problem.

You begin by saying the reason to vote no is because it is not enough and that we need a long range plan.

However then you go on and list reasons why people wil vote no, you go on about people being mad, redistrict and the economy. It seems you believe your first argument is not strong enough or there are not enough with that beleive to have the majority of the people to vote no, you must invovle others and instead of debate why to vote no you spend much of your time to convice those to vote no.

Allow to express why this is not a good idea. If indeed you believe we need more funding and a larger plan, how will the economy help after the November vote? The schools will be closed and the redistrict lines will remain the same, how will voting no in November help that cause and how will it change the school year?

If more vote no because of anger, economy and overcrowding no it solves nothing nor does it move us to a solution.

So I submitt to you that if you truly feel we need more and perminant funding stressing the econmoy, overcrowding and anger will only set your own agenda further behind.

You like so many who have the same cry as yours are more concerned with the lost of leverage to push your agenda onto the public. As John has suggested, debate and fight for what you really believe.

sense: in reference to your household budget theory, the answer is it depends. It depends on how much savings I have left. The district hasn't been out of work six months yet, they haven't used their savings, in fact, they added to it.

It is not time yet to put a bandaid on it, we have time to do the right thing.

schoolside: you assume that the people who are against it this time are the same people who were against it last time. I got news for you, we all didn't vote no last time. There are many on here who voted yes in April, but plan to vote no this time because we believe that our schools deserve permanent funding.

sense: do you feel like people are following you all the time? You seem a bit paranoid.

sense - your rationalization sounds much like some of the earlier posts by apple.
At issue is the question whether taxpayers should increase funding to do nothing more than maintain a status quo found unacceptable by many.
The BOE has done nothing to demonstrate that they will do anything different from the past in how these funds would be utilized if approved. In fact their most creative thinking in addressing the funding problem was to eliminate the sunset clause, totally ignoring other concerns being voiced on little things like improving the educational performance of the district.

In return yougotta, many who voted no may be voting yes because of the sunset. Not paranoid at all, information gives one very clear thougt

apm - to your point, we should deny our schools funding, keep the funding below state guidlines, keep them below most the level most communities fund their schools, until we do a small thing which would be all agree on a plan of overall improving the educational performance of the district, that should take no time at all - again you like many only wish to hold vital funding to push your agenda.

Sence
Yes some of these issues in my last post are part of them problem the district has.And they need to figure out a way to solve them plain and simple.These issues must also be solved before our district can move forward with any long term plan for our community's school.
I also as well do not believe this levy funds our schools and the district has admitted this themselves.So why porceed with something that is not right?.
I have to agree with apmastrangelo your rationalization sounds so much like some of the eariler post by apple.

the problems you speak of can be solved after funding is retored, everyone will be on a level playing field with a time frame of five years to move foward.

Everyone keeps referring to apple - I beleive apple is gone -

Yougottabekiddingme (re 10:31 AM post)According to the 2009 telephone book, Mr. Shields lives 3 or 4 miles south of city limits. I don't know what high school district that puts him in. I would think maybe Mid Buchanan. My point is that I would rather see people, who are paying property taxes in St. Joseph, shaping our city revenue issue arguments. Somehow, I don't think he is personally affected in any way, shape, or form, by the events of next Tuesday, from a tax standpoint.

so we are clear, Mr. Shields lives near St. Joseph and has children that go to the St. Joseph School district, and a group out of Chicago - and you have a problem with Mr. Shields?

also you can live outside the city limits and stil pay property tax to the St. Jospeh school district.

The BOE is not going to magically begin to embrace the community if the levy is approved and begin making policy changes that should have been occurring over the past several years.
Numerous input was given the board against proceeding with this issue on the November ballot and once again there was a complete disregard. Should the levy fail on Tuesday the message should clear to the entire board including Dr. Smith that there is no confidence in their ability to guide the district.

I disagree - many communities have had school measures fail numours times before passing, are you saying their leadership was just as flawed? Maryville and Savannah are just a few examples. To your point, do you beleive if the levy fails everyone will just as magically start communicating and working together? There is truly only one proactive outcome and that is to return the funding and vote yes on November 2nd.

sense October 28, 2009 at 8:50 p.m.Everyone keeps referring to apple - I beleive apple is gone -

One can only hope.

I just saw a very interesting poll on stjoechannel .com and it was asking how you were going to vote on Nov 3rd school levy and it had 61.7 % say they were going to vote NO and only 22% saying they were voting yes and 2.5 percent saying they wwere not going to vote and the remaining saying they did not live here and could not vote.
So if this poll is any indication as to how the turn out is goingto be next Tuesday I think people are going to turn out to vote.

Yes if this is any indication, the poll you refer to has 81 total people voting. That very well could be an indication of the turn out.

How would sence know apple is gone since they just joined October 27th?

not read anything from apple in a long time, figure apple went away, you seem preoccupied with apple. In any regard I do feel that such a low tally on the poll does suggest we could again have a very low turnout on eleciton day, thank you mm for bringing that to everyones attention.

Sence total opposite I think there will be a large turn out next Tuesday. If you follow this poll I mention The No vote percentages are seeming to climb.Even if it was a low turn out and these folks were the only ones who did turn out it would fail.
Maybe this is what it is going to take to get the board and administrators to the table themselves and work with the community for a plan for funding for our schools.These are just my opinions but it seems as if it may just end up this way.

Sense, you take the $35k job and make cuts where ever possible, get that new car sold, and buy a used one for cash, drop the insurance to liability only, buy items from Goodwill, and outlet stores and garage sales, buy generic brand groceries, don't eat out at ALL, instead of going to a movie, rent one, and make your own popcorn, buy the cheapest cuts of meat, and WAY more Hamburger and chicken, ONLY take your prescription medications every OTHER day, ride the bus, do away with Cablevision, keep thermostat on 80 in summer and 60 in winter, cut your grass so low that it burns out, do away with ALL gift buying, Christmas, Birthdays, Anniversaries, Graduations, get rid of ALL added phone services, call waiting etc. stop flushing the stool if you only do NO.1, replace light bulbs with flourecent ones, and keep them off most of the time, limit TV watching to 2 hrs a day, there's nothing on with an antenna any way, stop taking the news paper and use some of your 2 hrs of TV to watch news, wear the same cloths more than once, cut out salon visits, take in babysitting or have a Garage sale, repair clothing instead of replacing it, super glue will fix the sole of a shoe, buy bags of breakfast cereal not boxes, CLIP COUPONS where ever you can find them, Dr. Office has a lot of magazines, sell wedding rings, cardboard makes a nice lining for shoes with holes in the sole, as long as it's not rainy but you can get more at the Gro. store for free, and I am sure that you didn't know this but Dumpsters sometimes hold Treasure !

sense ate apple. ; )

Hey sense - take a look at the article about Mr. Myers conflict of interest that was published today. NOW, we can talk about conspiracy theories. Here's one for you:

The TF in combination with Mr. Myers colluded to keep the sunset clause on the levy which they KNOW is bad for our community. They have hoodwinked the district, the PTA and parts of the community into believing it is really "for the children" even though they know that not only will the district be financially distressed at the end of the five years but this will make it harder to ever get any levy passed without a sunset clause. Why? Business owners are for LOW taxes, we all St. Jo has some of the lowest.

IF Sheilds lives outside of the city, he does NOT pay property taxes for the SJSD. He may pay a fee to the district to allow his kids to go to school here, but who knows.

Come on St. Jo - DON'T be fooled by the Task Force. This is not what is best for our community - they know it, the administration knows it, the SB knows it.

I did look at the artical and I must say the CAFT must be very nervous they are losing for this kind of misdirection. So we are to beleive that a polotical marketing firm which makes it living misinforming voters deal in the gutter of advertising - keep in mind they are the ones that sent the flier with photos of our school board calling them clowns, who are paid a great deal of money by the Sam Adams Foundation, who's goal is to destroy public schools. We are to beleive this law suite is to protect St. Joseph against a local lawyer who is voluntering for his local school.

If you truly believe this then you are not for this community, you have no place in the planning of long term school issues, you are a danger to our children. You frankly disgust me.

Sense is apple. Only apple routinely spells 'article' like this = artical. In the post above there it is 'artical'. I will give apple credit though, is much less rude under the sense name.

kw
My thought percisely.But it only a matter of time.This whole situation that has came to light about Mr Myers is startingto make the TF (OCOFOD)group look like clowns though and the district should have done a little reasearch on this info about Mr Myers but they were just in a hurry to get the heat off of themselves from the mess they cause and turn the whole situation over to a outside group.The webs some people weave.

sense, you disgust me.

You aren't for the children like you say - you are against the children and against this community.

Anyone supporting this levy proposal is advocating to keep our community and our schools among the lowest funding in the state.

Don't be fooled St. Jo. NO in November. Fight for what is right for our kids.

kw - if sense is apple, just give it time, she will eventually have one of her famous meltdowns. It is inevitable.

The fact that everyone is more concerned about my identity again shows lack of faith of their own arguments. Only a few here keep posting the same arguments and it is very easy to see the agenda

yougotta - in regard to who is for and who is against, you want to keep money away from our kids and champion a marketing firm who puts out fliers calling our school board clowns. I want to get funding back to the schools, I will allow that argument provide everyone the answer to the above quesiton.

Now to answer a question regarding the Sam Adams Alliance - It is no theory - according to the Missouri Ethics reports, $35,000 was given to the Citizens Against Forever tax by TeamSam from Chicago. TeamSam is the finacial fund raising arm of the Sam Adams Foundation. The Sam Adams Foundation formed the American Majority which wants to make our schools private by their own mission statement. Why would on organization from Chicago donate $35,000 to fight against proper funding for a school district in St. Joseph Missouri unless someone locally belongs or is connected to this group.

I have never championed Axiom or CAFT. Actually, what ACE stands for is in direct conflict with what CAFT stands for so I am not sure why you seem to be so anxious to connect the two groups.

Can you please explain?

sense October 29, 2009 at 8:40 a.m. - " unless someone locally belongs or is connected to this group."

Their connection is obviously Ken Reeder.

Seems that "sense" is making good valid arguments, but so are others who are very concerned about the precedent that will be set of funding our educational operating levy with a sunset.

I applaud the clash of ideas and the relatively respectful manner in which they are being discussed.

After the campaign is over on Tues and the votes are counted, there is no question that our community must heal its wounds, engage and get to work on a long range plan for St. Joe's Kids!

I do not think anybody needs to worry about the citizens group.I think they need to be worried about the parents that are still upset with the district,the people who cannot afford any new taxes since this is a new tax at this point,the economy which will cause No votes,and the people who just thinks this is a waste of time and money to be going in this direction because it does not solve anything financially for our schools,The poll I see on the stjoechannel it is still showing this levy failing and the last time they polled about the levy and the bond the numbers reflected the outcome.I think as well with the weather is suppose to be nice the turn out is going to be there and I think this is going to fail again and then we have wasted another 50,000 to put this on the ballot which could have went to the schools and they could have worked themselves for the levy with the community.

I will never support the TF(ocofod) group in anything they do they are showing their true colors to the community in the last few days and I do not trust them any futher then I could throw them.

A true grass roots group is needed to work with the entire community and the board and admin to get anything resolved for our schools not politicians,the GOF and Heartland.These people are out for their own best interest not the community as a whole.
Now the Mr Myers thing it is a conflict of interest at this point and he should resign his position in the TF.

The messes that have been created when will they learn and when will they see their bully tactics do not work in St Joseph.The webs we weave.

NO IN NOVEMBER

What is clear is mm only wants vengence for something, who knows what - that will not pull the community together or get us to common ground. John it could be Reeder, but I feel he is nothing more than a puppet. Perhaps he unleashed the Genie in the bottle -

Take away the emotions, and apply logic, restoring the levy so that we may move foward is the only logical choice on November election. When you vote, just ask, are the kids in the classroom today worth to you as much as the kids in the classroom last year?

Sense
I have to commend you for staying true to this community and not wanting outsiders to take over. It seems that everytime you bring up Sam Adams Foundation it gets shifted off them to another subject. Good call.

Sence
These type of post sound all to familiar.My opinions are not vengence for anything they are the point of what have happened and how some feel in this community.I am sorry you fail to see it.I like that new computer.
I would love to restore the levy if it did not still put our schools in financial distress before it expired and not have to deal with this all over again in a couple of years when they are asking us for more and the community tells them No at that point and then we start all over again.
Some like bandaids for hugh wounds I like to have them sewed up and healed and out behind us so untill they can address the needs then I will vote NO IN NOVEMBER.

Sjones, thank you, I also noticed hardly any posts regarding the CAFT and the connecitons to Sam Adams. What is amusing is that they post that CAFT have no influence and yet when a smear story appears in todays paper fabricated by Axuom (however you spell it) they are all over it.

Sorry mm - I dont agree with you.

For those that have read posts by mm, to really understand him please look at his posts under letters to the editor from todays paper. Coach Dudik from Central is retiring after a very long carree at Central, he wrote a letter thanking everyone, mm posts he believes he is better becasue he went to Benton. Wow

I am glad to see it did not take you long to figure away out to come back and stir the pot back up.
I am glad sence or apple as many believe you are that you can take my post out of content and post what you believe I said and I did not say.I in now way said I was better never once.I know by the way you continue to come back after me you are apple and I will not get into it with you any longer.I cherish my right to post my opinions.

For those that are puzzeled by those comments, go to the letters to the editor section for today and read what mm wrote for yourself.

Sense. I must admit I have at times gotten tired of reading about the Sam Adams group. However, I am to the point now that I think this is pertinent to the conversation. I have not changed my mind in anyway about the administration or board, but I do not like outsiders controlling our school system, be they from 3 miles out or Chicago. There was a post telling of some local businesses basically being hypocritical about supporting, but not voting for, the levy. I think that needs to be investigated. I am more inclined to believe that the Sam Adams group is a big business wanting in the school business as a profit venture. My concern is that with our weak administration, board, and current economic times, it makes St. Joseph just ripe for the picking. I can just see the first Sam Walton Accelerated Elementary School. I am sure it will be located on Cook Road... or, the top half of Webster School. Hey, Walmart has plenty of money. They can renovate Neely and create their own board over it. It will now be called, "Little Sam's Accelerated (buy 1, get one free) Elementary School".

I keep posting it because those against the schools wish to brush it under the rug. There is not denying their involvement with the $35,0000 donation. What I don't understand is the lack of investigatiion by any of the local media.

On the onset I think the Sam Adams is a good idea, keep goverment responsible and transparent trace money spent - no problem with that effort and heck I would even join.

However like everything else today they go to extrems. They beleive we have gotten away from the fonding fathers and what they wanted in goverment and to a point they are right. However our fonders were smart enough to know their own flaws and the most genious conception of our country was leaving room for change and interpetation, which is good because back in 1776 All men created equal did not include men and African Americans.

If the fight is truly transparency then why the campain gainthey have taken. Why fight against any taxes such as they do with the Kansas City trasporetation tax, the Platte City parks tax and a school levy tax. Like it or not taxes have been a part of about every goverment on the face of the earth and necessary.

Also I find it difficult to take an organization who demands goverment transparency but conducts itself the complete opposite.

I have made very clear why I am voting No. I stand by my rationale, have the confidence to do so, and put my name to it. I stated my position with this group as well as with the pro levy group. I believe both groups have compromised their causes and have sent out information in flyers that does not address the core issues and problems. I have confidence those who vote will vote by making an independent decision. It is No in November for me. Bring the correct argument to the table, not a status quo solution that does not work. I am always curious what happened to that aggressive fight for the permenant levy cause back in April? It is forgotten how severely that cause trashed the "sunset" approach as being ineffective. For the record, all the arguments out there for a levy support a permenant one, not a sunset clause.

This is for everybody who feels school funding needs to be improved. Whether or not you are for the sunset or not and are voting accordingly, the next time this comes up, the opposition will still be there and it will be just as harsh, if not more so, because more money will be needed. This is one of the main reasons that I felt this was NOT the time to try to run this issue. No matter how this issue comes out on Tuesday, the district had better get out of its cocoon, or when they ask for the next revenue issue, sometime within the next 2 years, they will go through this all over again.

Dillygent1, that is an excellent post!! The next time this comes up, the district should take ownership of the argument and engage the community to get the buy in needed to support it. It will an interesting Tuesday to say the least.

Agreed, but hopefully the economy will be better, groups such as American Agenda will lose there luster and go away. The community and district will mend the fences and we all get moving in a more positve direction.