All of the mud slinging needs to end from both of these groups.The main issues need addressed and have not been in my opinion and this levy just does not serve the schools any justifcation and will still have them in a financial mess before it would expire.People have already made their minds up to how they are going to vote at this point all that is left is the voting to take palce and the outcome to be announced.

i think we need to have a tough man contest and let these parties on both sides slug it out. at least it would be more entertaining that way.

This is politics as usual. The flyers are intended to remind the anti-tax folks to get out and vote. Just like the OCD flyers are intended to remind the PTA folks to get out and vote. Allegations flying from both sides serve the same purpose. None of this changes anyones mind, this is a get out the vote campaign on BOTH sides.

All is fair in love and war....and politics. The OCD folks need to quit whining. Starting to remind me of Obama.

Although, I like the idea of a tough man contest. Maybe it could be a fund raiser for the district.

interesting to note that ed catron has now been listed as the CAFT treasurer. i know ed, he is a good man, and does yeoman's labor on many commissions here in st joseph. i really hope catron is not painted with the same brush as reeder.

good comment mm.

I find it funny the call to end mud slinging comes only when the "Our Childern" pushes back, mm where was this call when CAFT were sending fliers calling our school board clowns.

Heritage - anyone sorry I do not know Mr. Cartron, but anybody allowing themselves to be part of this committee is no friend to the community. You yourself have expressed displeasure with their efforts.

Sence,
I do not condone calling anybody names but the the district admin and board havenot helped their own cause to much.I was surprised to see Mrs Smith on the news last night even trying to engage the community.It goes to show they are worried about the outcome Tuesday as they should be the poll I have talked about is not in their favor.
Heritage hold on the attacks are goingto come back your way now from apple oh I meant sence.

i do not care for the tactics of axiom, that is true. unfortunately their strategy has worked here. i absolutely disagreed with their attacks on barnes because the "san francisco values" characterization and the persistent use of stereotyping of minorities.

i simply want to point out that catron is an exceedingly intelligent and civic minded person. if he has been willing to step into the morass of this campaign, i hope and pray that he will not receive the same treatment which myers has been subjected to. neither man is deserving of this kind of bruising rhetoric.

at some point we have to learn to agree to disagree. i applaud the measured response on the part of jason parks, as quoted here. it does no good for the city, whatever the outcome of this vote, to have a continuation of the insanity.

People should NOT be personally attacked for their beliefs! If Mr. Catron is the treasurer for CAFT, I am sure he has his reasons. He should not be demonized. It is not fair to him or his family to attack him for being against taxes.

The real problem here is that the SJSD needs to build a coalition that can overcome the anti tax vote. If that had been done, this would be a non-issue.

This has become very petty....from both sides. I've been talking about how the district has a lack of transparency and honesty. I'm now feeling that applies to BOTH SIDES!!

This is a message from one member of the public:

KNOCK IT OFF, ALREADY!!! BOTH OF YOU!!! WE ARE SICK TO DEATH OF THE PETTY BICKERING!!!

K N O C K I T O F F !!!!!!!!!!!!

Why is this even an article? I feel like I'm watching the KQ2 news at 10. This article is essentially the same article as
http://www.stjoenews.net/news/2009/oct/29/LevyWeb/ with a little new info about Ed Catron.

RR. i think it is appropriate given that the other "article" was only in the internet version of the NP. the public which reads the print version would not have been aware of this development.

hopeful all this bickering will be over wednesday. maybe we can get back to some real debate and move on with some real news. i don't really think so,the crybabys will be bawling for weeks one way or the other. they are still crying from the last vote some months ago.

Again no who you are dealing with - here is a link to the web page of the President of the American Majoriy blog space

http://www.americanmajority.org/component/search/public%2Bschools/%252F?ordering=&searchphrase=all

Notice the blogs and what they have in common. Pushing private schools over public. Charter schools, school tax credits. This group is behind Tea parties and activating citizens to run for office. They are the ones throwing $35,000 into Axuim to print these lies.

Look at the local opposition, see how they obey the American Majority new media training by using these posts and blogs to spread their agenda.

They attack anyone who speaks up for the school, they even tell the coach of Central who will be retiring this year he is only concerned with his salary.

These people will stop at nothing and for what? Simply returning funding to our local schools. For not wanting our district to be the lowest funded schools in the state. For putting as much value on kids today as those in school a year ago.

This has nothing to do with community engagemnt, district communication, it is pushing a national agenda into our community and our community will suffer.

St. Joe, Kansas City fought them and won, Platte City fought them and won, they don't care the issue or the reasons or what happens after, don't beleive research them, read the blogs.

Even if you agree with them, you can't keep money from your schools. If you don't stand up for your kids St. Joe, who will -

Sense/apple, you are the one NOT standing up for the kids. You know this is wrong, yet you are encouraging others to vote for it. WHY? What is your motive? Those are the questions people need to be asking themselves.

There will ALWAYS be anti-tax voters. It is a fact of life. The ONLY way to overcome that is to build a coalition BEFORE presenting a levy proposal to the voters.

Now stop trying to trick the people of St. Jo into voting for something that is bad for the kids and bad for the community.

Sence or apples twin there is alway going to be people who do not like taxes.This group is not the bigger picture we have to deal with but you are stuck on this group.They were here the last time and really had no affect on the levy and it failure it was the people of St Joseph that spoke and that is the people who will speak next Tuesday.This levy will fail by well above 50% if it follows along the lines of the stjoechannel.com poll.And all of these people are not being pushed into voting along the lines of the4 group you are stuck on I bet the majority of them areo ne who are upset with the SJSD/SJSB and they will not vote for anything for them this is why there must be communication on there part no the TF AND THE GOF to get the problems they have made for the community solved and trust earned back.
I beleive the above as well as this levy hurts our children and does not provide for our school.At most it will allow the salaries to be unforzen and such so how does that help the schools, and children.
You need to move on to the next subject but we know from the past you will not unless someone mentions the coach from Central and then you will go off of the deep end like you did the last time months ago.

mm - with all due respect - sorry that always makes me laugh, had to watch that movie again last night = what a complete fool -

Why do you insist on giving reasons for other people.

As for yougotta, all I do is post facts back by sources, what do you do, give mm differant words to use to post with?

There are always ant-tax people, yes, but they never invested over $35,0000 into a small school tax levy before.

Make no mistake people, this is classic distincing. They all claim it's not effective, they don't condon, or if they do they then explain why they do it.

Now Hearitage is the only one I have read that does seem not to like this approach and I give her credit for her comments.

Its simple logic, all the district is asking for is to get the .63 cent levy restored. Its just the simple.

Ok sence apples little twin.Youare one of the people that will cause this town to remain divided.You are to busy finding fault with thers to look beyond your own opinions.This is what has got us in the mess we are now.Maybe you are not apple but maybe you are one of the closed minded board or administrator from the downtown office.Newsflash I bet this levy fails Tuesday and we will see if you are apple because the last time she went off the deep end and could not stop.You are getting close some of your post have been removed already make one wonder.Ok what is it you want to hear someone say I gave the 35,000 to theis citizens group? These people are not going to tell us who they are/It was just a SURPIRSE when they atarted mailing their mailers out.If you do not like them throw them away and forget it.

I think all of you are giving both of these committees too much credit. I don't believe our community is paying much attention to either one. The people in this community are voting for or against because of their financial circumstances or how they personally feel about the district and how it is run. No outside group will ever sway St. Joseph people and I think the district and it's group should man up and tell people they've screwed up, but they are willing to work together to get things right. If we didn't give credit to outside forces they would let us be because they would know they can't influence this community. Whether you vote yes or no stop giving this group any credit. If this levy fails it is because of the voting citizens of our community saying no. If it passes it is because the majority saw fit to reinstate the tax. It really has nothing to do with either group nor their he said she said mentality. Let's give our community some credit for being smart enough to figure things out on their own!

Unfortunate classy Axium makes a lot of money for being succesful at what they do. Many will tell you they disregard this kinds of advertising, but studies will show you time after time again negative politcal advertising works. Consider how bad the economy is, these groups raise money from donors who receive no tax break in doing so. Putting $35,000 into a small school levy election is a lot for something not to be effective.

mm - you always comment after I post regrading the Sam Adams or the American MAjority, you seem to not want people to read these facts and yes, I do want to know who is involved with these groups.

no one has said it better, classy.

apple/sense: "all I do is post facts back by sources"

Now that is funny.

Then drop it sence people have seen it enough in you post about this group.We get it!!!!.
Classyt has given us the majority of the reasons people with either vote for it or against it and I agree with them.

Isn't anyone curious as to who exactly IS funding Axiom? Who has a stake in seeing the demise of the SJSD? I mean, I'm really, truly, interested. If it's someone our coummunity knows and respects, perhaps they have a valid view point that is obscured by their secrecy. Right now, I don't know if it's someone that is anti-tax at any cost or if they are carrying out a personal vendetta against Dr. Smith or someone on the school board. My speculation can go any number of ways without a platform from them. It's obviously someone with deep pocket books -- that much is clear! Who in St. Joseph has that kind of money? Anyway, I'd sure like to know who it is and what their proposed alternative is to public education.

yep, classy is right. IMO that's why it makes all this other stuff kind of entertaining.

Amen Classy :)

If this fails by the wide majority I think its going to it will not be because of CAFT. I also feel if it passes OC/OF/OD shouldn't pat themselves on the back much. Neither group has done anything to sway me one way or the other. These groups need to give the voters some credit for doing their own research. That being said research is hard to do when both sides are citing 1/2 truths or out an out lies as facts.

just a reminder of the reaction in the aftermath of the NO/NO vote. .......
http://www.stjoenews.net/news/2009/apr/10/your-letters-april-10-2009/?opinion

A very good reminder Heritage what happens when a group such as the American Majority helps the silent majority get a puppet in office such as Mayor Kenny.

and a revelatory piece written by your coach dudik, i might add.

sorry, can you reference participation by this group on behalf of mayor shearin? i had not heard that.

Sense, your last post interested me. I will admit that Mayor Kenny is controversial, to say the least, but your puppet comment kind of surprised me. Who is his puppet master? Classyt, I would agree with your comment in its entirety if it was not for one thing. This town one time elected a sheriff because he was a good guy on "Wrasslin'" on television.

dilly.... i have to laugh at the image of the mayor not having any strings to operate his mouth........ or to control them.

Seems to me we have lost track of what this is all about and that is our schools.We can all includng myself sit around and say what if al day long.The voters have already made their minds up they wil either vote Yes or No come Tuesday and we will all know the outcome before we go to bed.
Then the mud slinging will continue no matter what the turn out is.
One thing is for sure if the levy passes and they come back before it expires I will not support any further funding till then.

Waste:
1. What about all the new windows that were put in all the schools we just closed?
2. What about all of the "kid mats" that were purchased through Hillyards that were simply thrown away.
3. What about the "peer teachers"...teachers to teach teachers how to teach? Come on!!
4. What about the "necessary" trip to Tanterra for all of the principals?

1. The windows were put in somewhere around 10 years ago. The district got 10 years of energy savings from them. Webster was closed as an elementary school but is still being used so no waste. The district can not make decisions solely on the basis that a decade earlier some maintenance was performed on a building.

2. Did you personally see this?

3. All professions have continuing education. You're an idiot if you are not continually upgrading your skills.

4. Its Tan Tar A. Again this is very common in professions. Get together and learn what others are doing, bring back new ideas. Fact is that it is often the most cost effective place to met in this state.

Just as an 'intellectual exercise', lets say that public education erodes completely and that the far-right wingnuts get their way and vouchers become the funding mechanism for the education of our children: Who would benefit? Who would get out of paying taxes for other peoples' kids? Who could imagine an outcome that isn't a tragedy? Personally, I imagine a lot of kids going to parochial schools that will cost twice as much as the vouchers are worth, thus guaranteeing that the parents will get a ginormous tax break and continue to send their kids to exclusive, fundamentalist schools, safe in the awareness that poor kids and the kids of illegals and non-participatory parents will have to take their vouchers to the public schools anyway where their educations will not suffer (supposedly) because they will still have the same teachers and administration (all working at decidedly lower wages) while the richer kids will enjoy their parochial educations and their parents will enjoy the voucher subsidy they so eagerly seek.

Webster is beng wasted the second floor is not being used the last I heard so I would call this a waste of space.
Like someone said a while back maybe we can cut the second floor off and move it to cook road.

c0uchtime, an interesting post you had. I am not so sure that it would just be the parochial schools that would benefit. Big business, such as WalMart is interested in entering the field of school ownership. Just imagine, the parochial school might find themselves hurting because they got undercut from Walmart. I have to admit, WalMart is cheaper. I wonder if all of the teaching materials will come from China and India. After all, everything else does. The one thing that people don't ever stop to think is that when Uncle Sam gives you money, he usually wants something, namely, a piece of your hide. That is REALLY a lot of what has happened to public schools. Personally, I would enjoy Uncle Sam's invading of WalMart to see just how they were engaged in the art of civil rights. Come to think of it, "they" don't want public schools out. "They" want them down so the "nondesirables" have someplace to go. Draw your own conclusions who I mean by the word, "they".

Hearitage, I loved coach Dudiks letter, he tells it like it is. God bless him, anybody whose life has been touched by this man has been blissed.

As to the subject of public education, it's under attack. You want to attack it, fine, go volunteer at meetings, run for school board go to all the American Majority meetings you want. Do not hold funding back from your kids and your schools.

Qustion to you all, many have posted how bad the economy in St. Joseph is today. Tell me how making the third largest employee in the community and one of the largest purchasers in the community stessed help the economy of the community. Teachers make less, positions cut means less being purchased in the community, less purchased means less sales tax, less sales tax means less money for police and fire. Utlilites make less the raise your rates and there is not a darn thing you can do about it.

So much has been made of the schools catering bill, you know who liked te catering, the employees at Hy-Vee, imagine if your a manager of teh deli department of Hy-Vee and say your have five people working in the delie department, your faced with declining sales and now one of your largest clients cuts back all their purchases, you run the numbers and you know you need to reduce your staff by three. Now you have three more jobs eliminated because no one understands a normal business expense.

Explain how this helps our economy, the public schools is the third largest employee, if they were a factory or a plant or Quaker, city goverment, officials would be doing everything they could to save them.

Sence these are good points but you may want to send these to the SJSB.Since they are going to be the reason this levy fails.
It seems as if the public may be going to send them a clear message in a few days.
Have a good night.But these were good points but directed toward the wrong people in my opinion.

no they are really directed at you since your kids are now in schools, make no mistake the levy fails we will see major cuts in all schools all programs. We will lose many teachers and positions. Our kids will get much less, it will be ten times worse than what happened the last defeat and you won't see levy vote return in a year.

the school board isnt clowns????really? could've fooled me

Sence if it gets 10 times worse when they also said they could opperate at the current status for 2 years then the things they take away will be pure vindictive t ward the community.
And it would be the end of Mrs Smith time here in St Joseph People would not stand for that.

Really, and how will that happen, only two new members get elected to the board, even if they decide to let Dr. Smith go it will take about year to find a replacement. Anyway you look at it, your looking at a very difficult situation for about two years. Go for it.

We have already wasted 6 month and I would not see it taking a year.
Look the heat if this levy does not pass is going to be one someone.And who is the leader.
2 new member one that is on the board that does not agree with the direction that would be 3 members. I do not think they could afford to have anymore peoblems when new member are voted in.Peoples voices will be heard Tuesday because they have fell upon deaf ears with our current board with the exception of Mr Snethen and our current administration.

Are peoples voices being heard through their mailboxes? Is it the peoples voice calling school board clowns? People who don't get paid, dragging them through the mud?

What will happen if this does not pass will be large cuts. Half of the people in this town won't care because they think thats what they should do, others will simply move to a better community with better kids and a handful like you will be angry because you won't move. That won't be enough to make the changes you want. Destroying your schools by taking money away is not the proper way to get anything done.

Why should we move we grew up here went to school here and have very solid roots here.A very large family here with very solid roots in the community.
We are not the people ruining our school that has to be look for no further then 10th& Felix I believe.
And the citizens that want more accountablility are not the ones ruining our schools.
It is people in charge with oneside veiws unwilling to think outside of their box and they have dragged our schools down to the point they are now.I personally believe they are on borrowed time but that is my own beliefs.
As far as cuts there are not to many more that they can cut so this will make them engage the community and work with the community "themsleves" for trust from the community as a whole all areas and work with them for a levy they will support.
This is something the TF (OCOFOD) group failed to see till it is to late for them.They should have listened as well if indeed this fail Tuesday.

Since the SJSB fails to listen and we have some members that seem like on every issue there is not debate about anything in front of them and they just want to get the school board meetings over for they can go home they just vote for everything good or bad just for they can get out of there.I have seen it myself at the meetings.It's like they all have a rubber stamp and they are robots and then ask are we done yet.I have also seen them sit in meetings and act if nothing is a big deal sit in their chairs sideways and not even look at the people at the meeting as if this is a waste of my time.Good examples of leaders isn't it.The night they had Unicom Arc the president of the school board did not even ask this group one question,Rucker was ready just to turn things over to them at that point and did ask any questions, one member asked how long the planning would take others nothing and I hear Mr Snethen was not even given a Microphone for he could ask a question.So maybe they do firt the clown statement just a little.

that is my point - you will be stuck here and your kids will be the ones left in a district that will be cutting back many programs and services. Those who want better will simply leave. Your vote will make your kids suffer. I don't know why you want to do that but that is your decision. Oh, when your kids get out of school they will find a community with even less jobs an in worse shape it is today. All for what? Because the community does not want to pay .63 levy and get the levy to the level it was a year ago? I don't understand that kind of thinking but do understand, if the levy fails, major, major cutbacks will come.

My children will not suffer they are honor roll students and if it get to the point they are not getting a education in the schools there are choses,Private school,or home schooling.
See though it is very simple people do not trust the current leaders and they have failed to adress the issue and listen to people so they will send them a message and they should have acted to stop this and actually do the right thing and they would have had people support.

Sorry I meant there are choices .Better get this corrected before the grammer police arrive.

and there you have it, right from the American Majority handbook, "there are choices, Privite schools" plays right into the hands of what they want, weaken the public school districts to push their agenda on every community through what they beleive our kids should be learning.

You want schools that look like Fox News, this is what they want, which is fine, build your own schools, leave mine alone.

Sense, then you had better prepare for MAJOR, MAJOR, cut backs, because the thumb ratings at the bottom of every post Have Spoken, I have been tracking them about this whole levy thing, and it is NOT looking good, I Still don't know how I will vote, it may depend on if I win the power ball before the vote or not,,, because it's not that
I don't want it to pass, it's that I can't afford for it to pass, and I know that you do not believe that, but Walk a Mile in My Shoes !

Sence is not sencable this election will not have any thing to do wit hthe citizens group or the TF people are going to vote against thislevy for other reason and some have to do wit hthe board and admin.Some just cannot afford any new taxes and this will be a new tax since it was not renewed in April and some do not like the direction of this levy.The citizen group did not play a roll in this the last time it failed by only 172 votes. so I do not call that a lot of influence by the citizens group so sence quit blowing smoke.Peoples mind are already made up which way they are going to vote and we wil know the results come Tuesday evening.And sence we all have choices in this world if we want to send kids to a private school home school them,not want new taxes,we can vote yes or we can vote no thisis our right and some do not like that everybody has rights.Isn't that right sence you seem like the type of person that would not like for certain people to vote or groups the right to vote.

I have been saying all along that I believe the school district has been shooting itself in the foot, by having no community relations plan. I do believe that they understand that the education of our schools is part of their job. They just don't understand the political side of it. Maybe their problem has been naivete more than arrogance. I have also heard from the teachers and other staff, that the administrators don't always stand up for their own employees, either. I also think, as I have said before, and will say it again...I don't think the job market here pays enough to stimulate a child's interest in getting better grades, so he/she can enter the workforce here and get a better job. I am afraid that the students who achieve, find it necessary to leave town, to get a job that will pay commensurate with their job skills. I think the business community has, at times, done a good job of bashing the school system. However, when are they going to step up to the plate, themselves? When are they going to provide, at the least, a livable wage for their employees?